Help on rushing please

[pangu]

Hi. I have been lurking on this forum daily and have learnt a lot from experienced players. I have a few questions on rushing which I hope some experts can help out.

If I decide to rush, I normally start it when I have 4 cities and ignore wonders (apart from Stonehedge if I am not creative) until the rush is well under way, and I spam cottages like mad to avoid the economy crashing. I stop when I have around 9-12 cities (I raze the crappy ones which are built on tundras and ice coast) or when I see the AI I am rushing has longbows.

1/ Which tech path should I go? I have been trying to go down the literature path to grab the GL normally but it seems that even with cottages, my economy is still in a mess. Should I beeline currency and CoL instead of wasting time on the literature line and give up the GL?

2/ If I get a prophet from Stonehedge, should I use him for golden age to help me get currency and CoL faster, and for the extra money during golden age?

3/ Is it better to eliminate an AI completely or leave him just 1 city so that I can get a few cheap freebie techs from him for a peace treaty?

I find the rushing part easy but it is sometimes hard to recover after rush.

Thanks for your help.


ps I play on monarch level.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

If you have 4 cities it's not a rush. It's an early war. In a rush you build only 1 extra city at most to hook up bronze or horses. Your goal is to eliminate an opponent, not to gain land. You usually raze every city except the enemy capital or holy cities.

Anyway, read this. Should be helpful.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=244075

 

[OTAKUjbski]

If you have 4 cities it's not a rush. It's an early war.

QFT.

Check out this game I played last month (I need to get around to finishing it some time).

I settled one city and rushed 2 neighbours: Rome by 1600 BC and Carthage by 1125 BC!

I then entered an "early war" with Mongolia and wiped them out by 295 AD.

Rushes are all about getting there first ... you be big ... they be small ... let them exhaust their on Workers and Settlers ... expend yours on Axes!

 

[Refar]

If you are expanding to many cities, and has a offensive army to pay for, you need economy techs. Delaying both CoL and Currency till after Literature is not a good idea under that conditions (not sure if it is ever a good idea). You should get at least one.

Golden Age that early in the game is very weak - few cites working few tiles = minimal bonus. If you happen to pop a Prophet, check if there is a Shrine to be made (in yours, or soon to be yours cities). If so, make shrine. Otherwise settle him - will give you some gold and a couple of hammers.

Kill or not depends. If you can get a tech that you really need, for letting him live another 10 turns, why not.
Just some cheap garbage is not worth loosing time.

 

[cronullasharks]

Killing off a Civ also makes life easier cause all taken cities will immediately revert to 100% your culture and all unhappiness "we yearn to join our motherland" will disappear.

IMHO the economy crash after major warring is no big deal , if you have more and larger cities than the AI its just a matter of time B4 you catch up , I go fairly slowly to currency and COL(but still they are the priority) and even avoid specialists if I have productive tiles to work or have not reached happy /healthy caps

I fall further and further behind , but the large pops allow me to whip markets and courts when the tech becomes available and in a matter of a few turns your economy turns upside down , and back filling all the techs that every one else knows is very easy.

I make one exception to being behind in tech.......if you are so far behind that its gonna get you killed (they have maces and trebs while you are still studying construction) , then you may have to run specialists and get to construction (especially if you have ivory) or feudalism first

 

[pangu]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, guys. I guess my tech path is wrong... As Refar advised, I should focus on CoL and currency instead of beelining literature and waste hammers on the GL. I did this with Kubai Khan today and the result is awesome. I went for alphabet and DoW on Mansa, got him down to 1 city and got 2 techs from him, then DoW on Pascal till he got 1 city and got 2 techs from him, and then DoW Churchcill, got him down to 1 city and got another tech from him. I used a GP which I got from a city with Stonehedge to set up the Hindu shrine as Refar advised. All this with Keshiks before they had longbows, and amazingly enough with 16 cities and over 40% of the map, my economy is not on strike?! (Previously, at this point in time, I had to disband my army to avoid strike,but being able to build wealth definitely helps a lot imo). I guess I have been doing it all wrong beforehand when I aimed at the GL instead of market + courthouses. The game ended before 1600 when I got Cath and Alex capitulated and I got my 2nd highest score in monarch level.

I still had problems with real early rushes mentioned by BalbanesBeoulve and OTAKUjbski. I tried doing that with Zulu Imp rush yesterday with only 1 city to claim bronze. My economy crashed so hard that I was behind in tech almost half of the game. Meanwhile, Monty by some miracle, managed to vassalise 3 AIs and then declared on me (he ran police state with an amazing number of SAMs, infantry and cavalry). I finally won the game but it took ages and it was a very painful win (his army seems neverending)...


I

 

[InvisibleStalke]

I would stay with Literature if I had marble. The extra scientists from the GL will easily do as much for your economy as currency. But before Literature, COL or Currency I would tech Monarchy - usually during the war and usually using deficit research from the city capture. Monarchy will let you grow your capital big which will really assist you in recovering.

But I would start the war earlier. Rather than go from 4 cities to 12, why not attack off 2 or 3 cities? 2 cities is enough if both have great production. 3 can be better as it will gain you more trees to chop. Chop every tree to build soldiers. Descend with a horde big enough to take all their cities - probably at least 8 units with another 3 on the way.

Even on Immortal its unlikely the AI will have more than 5 or so cities by then if you have focussed purely on military and hit them as quickly as you can. So take them all - I won't even have Alphabet yet so gaining techs isn't going to happen.

Courthouses don't do a lot for your economy straight away. Small cities don't cost much and can't build them. You need to grow your cities big first.

 

[Bleys]

The main objective of an early rush is usually not to obtain enemy cities, but to have land to settle later on, when your economy is in a better position to expand. If I rush, I will generally only keep the enemy Capitol, and MAYBE a 2nd city if its a Holy City. Otherwise, I usually raze them all, even if they are in "good" spots, with every intention to re-settle them later. One thing I have tried to do lately is catch an enemy settler for the free worker while on my way to rush him.

In "early war" situations, your opponents will often have cities worth keeping, with some buildings and tile improvements already in place. For those types of situations, you need to make a decision to keep or raze. For myself, if I plan to obliterate an AI completely, I often keep cities like that, sometimes you get lucky and they keep their Granary, Forge, and even Courthouses depending on the timing. However, if I am unlikely to have the beef to completely finish off an opponent, I will raze and resettle the pre-improved area quickly, and avoid the "we yearn for the motherland" unhappiness. Cities founded in pre-improved areas generally grow pretty quickly, and if they have some commerce tiles to work, can pay for themselves.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

IMO early war > rush. You're doing more of an early war, which others have pointed out already. The lone exception, of course, is when you need to rush to get space. In that case, you rush.

Currency and CoL are priority techs if you're planning on doing a lot of early warring. To actually keep cities without your economy tanking, you'll need both. CoL is easier to get early on, but IMO currency is stronger due to the instant trade route commerce boost and building of wealth. I'd not delay either very long...

What you get first is situational, as is rushing at all. However, I can say that if you ARE taking cities, you can't ignore the economic techs!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The main objective of an early rush is usually not to obtain enemy cities, but to have land to settle later on, when your economy is in a better position to expand. If I rush, I will generally only keep the enemy Capitol, and MAYBE a 2nd city if its a Holy City. Otherwise, I usually raze them all, even if they are in "good" spots, with every intention to re-settle them later. One thing I have tried to do lately is catch an enemy settler for the free worker while on my way to rush him.

In "early war" situations, your opponents will often have cities worth keeping, with some buildings and tile improvements already in place. For those types of situations, you need to make a decision to keep or raze. For myself, if I plan to obliterate an AI completely, I often keep cities like that, sometimes you get lucky and they keep their Granary, Forge, and even Courthouses depending on the timing. However, if I am unlikely to have the beef to completely finish off an opponent, I will raze and resettle the pre-improved area quickly, and avoid the "we yearn for the motherland" unhappiness. Cities founded in pre-improved areas generally grow pretty quickly, and if they have some commerce tiles to work, can pay for themselves.

Motherland penalties are pretty low early on. Now, if you plan on making nice with that neighbor for a long time, I'd raze. However, if you're planning to redeclare after more troop buildup, imo it's not worth razing that city, you can use that settler somewhere else most likely.

 

[Jerrymander]

Mining -> Bronze Working

okay you're done

find copper
settle on it

build axes
build roads to enemy

gg you win

Try this as fast as you can, usually you should take an opponent out by 2000 BC at least.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Mining -> Bronze Working

okay you're done

find copper
settle on it

build axes
build roads to enemy

gg you win

Try this as fast as you can, usually you should take an opponent out by 2000 BC at least.

Also viable with Rome and the wheel/iron working added!

Egypt and Persia can do it with horses pretty nicely also .

 

[Jerrymander]

Also viable with Rome and the wheel/iron working added!

Egypt and Persia can do it with horses pretty nicely also .

Oh, I forgot the Wheel. :<