Help w/ new scenario: "1861: A World in Turmoil"

[kcck]

Hello. I'm goign to start makign a new scenario of mine. 1861, world map (Marla Singer's form PTW, i beleive). I figured the main points of interest would be:

1) American Civil War
-obvious. I always thought that in old civil war scenarios, the affect of the American West, and foreign powrs, was missing. With this, a whole new arrray of possible outcomes of the war are possible.

2) Colonialization of Africa and Asia
-large parts of Africa were still unsettled, and europeans still had only a foothold. I figured I should make 2 tribe,s norh Africans and south africans, representign the native people. make them VERY week compared ot the other civs. pretty much jsut a pple ot conquer, ot ally with.

3) Industrialization
-w/ industrial well underway in europe, asian and latin american countries would face the challenege of industrializing and becoming powerful, so as not ot be pulled into one of the empires of euopre.


so, i would like ot know ur imput on these ideas:

1) To represent cotton in the south, as well as in egypt, i oculd use dyes, say, siging each said country 4, along with all the outher dye resources.

2) put barbarians in the outback of australia and the pacific islands, so that europe is challnged at least a little.

now, for a few questions:

1) how much of india did britian contro lat this time?

2) my proposed palyers r:
USm US south, britian, franc,e russia, germany, scandinavia, spain, portugla, ital and greece, ottoman, austria, persia, norh africa, indians and central asian state,s china, korea, japan, southeats asians, dutch, southern africans, brazil, argentina, andean states, columbia, central america, mexico.

3) Wat gov shoudl thye all have? I was thinkign dem. for britia, Us, Us south, republic for france, despotism for latin america and africa, with monarchy for the rest.

Thnx

 

[Gogf]

You should probably put this in the Creation and Customization forum...

 

[Chieftess]

This should go into C&C. Moved.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

First of all, there's no Germany in 1861. There's Prussia, the other German states, and Austria.

I think Paraguay should be made it's own civ. I know it's a small and relatively insignificant country, but in 1864, it's going to become a lone state fighting the Triple Alliance of Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay. Many of the new weapons like ironclads first tested in the American Civil War, will find their way onto this battlefield.

The dictator of Paraguay, Francisco Salano Lopez, will throw everything he has at the allies, ultimately killing several hundred thousand of his own people... half his country's population. 90% of the males will be slaughtered in this war.

The other reason why this war is important is because it is part of a larger scope of European intervention in the Americas.

In 1861, the French are trying to take over Mexico. Spain is trying to re-colonize Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic), and it will shortly become embroiled in conflict with Peru and Chile as it tries to throw its weight around. Simultaneously, there is a war raging in Central America between.... El Salvador and... Honduras? Not sure about that.. but, basically one was considered pro-monarchist, the other pro-republic. Brazil is currently the only official monarchy in the Americas, but Lopez DOES intend to declare himself a king at some point with French backing. And in fact, the USA did invade Paraguay in the 1850s, but before there was any real fighting, Lopez negotiated with the Americans. He was not their biggest fan, and the feelings were mutual.

In short, it is as one author described it "Crowns vs. Liberty Caps". The American Civil War will tip the balance in real history and the Monroe Doctrine will be reasserted... but if one should tip the scale the other way in this scenario... consider the possibilities. Had Britain and France intervened on behalf of the Confederacy, had the Trent affair led to war, it would've dragged all of the American countries, and all of the European power players there (France, Britain, and Spain) into war. Effectively World War I: 1861.

In Europe, there are two major unification issues: Germany and Italy. NEITHER are their own countries at this point, and it will take several wars before their unifications are accomplished.

Meanwhile, there is the Great Game being played in Central Asia. Personally, I think Afghanistan should be in there as well (it was a lot easier when all lone nations could be made Barbarian in Civ2).

Also, there are the Zulu and other African tribes that are a big pain in the butt for the British at this point, and though they are not a huge threat, Britain does, however, have its fingers in too many pies by this point... Perhaps some Barbarian encampments could suffice here... Just give them some rather tough barbarian units.

1861 is a big year in the world...

 

[Dom Pedro II]

1) To represent cotton in the south, as well as in egypt, i oculd use dyes, say, siging each said country 4, along with all the outher dye resources.

Why use dyes? Why not just make a cotton resource???


Also, you can make some new governments if you want that might be more appropriate for the given countries.

 

[Antiochus VII]

You could also include the Taiping rebellion in China, although it was on the decline by 1861 (you just miss the end of the "Opium Wars" by starting in 1861) as the Taiping actually controlled - and governed - a very large population even in 1861. You could simply lock them in a war with Manchu China. It'd make for a more realistic portrayal of the Chinese situation along with a LOT of "bandits" - that is a 19th century barbarian unit.

As for governments, I think you should include Manchu China and the Southeastern Asian states as despotisms (or something similar) and have at least two different "Republic" types, one with high corruption - but republic war weariness, etc - for South America and a French version closer to Democracy in values (lower corruption, etc.).

China should also develop into the "corrupt Republic" from despotism for example.

 

[kcck]

1) Thnx for the insight into South America. Perhaps I should make Paraguay a nation, Uragay, say, argentine or brazilian.

2) I'm makign dyes represent cotton cuzz ive heard its hard to make another resource.

3) Thnx! I completely forgot about the Taipang Rebellion in China! (This is sad, cuzz i covered it in a research paper i wrote last yr, lol@me) I think i may make thme 2 seperate countries.

4) For central asia, perhaps afghanistan and the rest oif central asia should be its own nation. that puts a rench in my plan to make the part of india not yet under british control in with this civ. Will it cause a problem?

P.S. Howm uch of India does britian have at this point. lol.

5) Yeah, Africa, Austrlaia, and Oceania i will make mostly barbs, but i wanna put 3 civs in africa. north afirc,a for egypt and al lthe other islamic nations, and southenr africa, foir the small kingdoms, and ethiopia and liberia beign the third. Havign relatively weak civs in africa would let u:

a) take thme over, lol, or...
b) not take thme over, but trade with them, let thme finish of the barbs, thne u can move in or something, lol.

Other questions:

i dont realyl wanna make any new units, lol, so...

1) navies at this point r frigates and galleons, with southenr africans having caravels?

2) canons or artillery?

3) riflemen, not musketers, for europe and latin america, and ottomans, with musketeers for all else?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

1) Thnx for the insight into South America. Perhaps I should make Paraguay a nation, Uragay, say, argentine or brazilian.

2) I'm makign dyes represent cotton cuzz ive heard its hard to make another resource.

3) Thnx! I completely forgot about the Taipang Rebellion in China! (This is sad, cuzz i covered it in a research paper i wrote last yr, lol@me) I think i may make thme 2 seperate countries.

4) For central asia, perhaps afghanistan and the rest oif central asia should be its own nation. that puts a rench in my plan to make the part of india not yet under british control in with this civ. Will it cause a problem?

P.S. Howm uch of India does britian have at this point. lol.

5) Yeah, Africa, Austrlaia, and Oceania i will make mostly barbs, but i wanna put 3 civs in africa. north afirc,a for egypt and al lthe other islamic nations, and southenr africa, foir the small kingdoms, and ethiopia and liberia beign the third. Havign relatively weak civs in africa would let u:

a) take thme over, lol, or...
b) not take thme over, but trade with them, let thme finish of the barbs, thne u can move in or something, lol.

Other questions:

i dont realyl wanna make any new units, lol, so...

1) navies at this point r frigates and galleons, with southenr africans having caravels?

2) canons or artillery?

3) riflemen, not musketers, for europe and latin america, and ottomans, with musketeers for all else?

1) Yeah, there's no need to make Uruguay. It was basically being run by the Argentines and the Brazilians anyway by that point.

2) It depends on your definition of hard. It's remarkably easy to add resources, but it's the graphics that might be a snag for you. If you want though, I can post MY resource files here so you can use the cotton.

3-5) Got nothing for. You're pretty much on the money I think.

Also, there is a HUGE resource of unit graphics here. You need not settle only for what the game provides.

 

[General Porkins]

you might also want to split this up into several separate scenarios, focusing on each event

 

[kcck]

"2) It depends on your definition of hard. It's remarkably easy to add resources, but it's the graphics that might be a snag for you. If you want though, I can post MY resource files here so you can use the cotton."

-ok, thnx. i would STEP Y STEP instructions, seeign as i know NOTHING. lol

"Also, there is a HUGE resource of unit graphics here. You need not settle only for what the game provides."

-i know, but i jsut dont feel like makign whole new units, or jsut change the graphic,s, for thatm atter

"you might also want to split this up into several separate scenarios, focusing on each event"

-thnx, but im a fan of world map scenarios, lol. i jsut REALLY wnana make this one. lol

any otheri mput on the other questions left unanswered?

 

[kcck]

bump up

i have a few more questions:

1) Where should everyone be on the tech tree? I was thinking American and SOuth should be in industrial, w/ medicine, sanitation ,stemapower, industrialization, nationalism, and the corporation, w/ both researching ironclads. All other westenr europeans having the same tech. advancement, w/ Russia jsut recently gettign industrial., so havign no factories, the Ottoman Empire researching industrial.
I was thinkign China w/ jsut medicine and sanitation, and researxhing industrialization (not nationalism, so that it wont get any strogner militarily anytime soon). Give Japan medicine, sanitation, and nationalism, maybe? Latin America, same as America, minus the corporation. Persia and Ethiopa, jsut medicine and sanitation? This set-up would give China frigates, though.

P.S. Ive made a scenario b4, but it was a flop (logn story). SO, i cant remember if u can make the etch they r researchign when u set up the game.

2) If I make cotton, where should i put it? I was thinking american south, egypt, and central asia, with perhaps jsut 1, MAYBe 2, in India?

3) If i make cotton, i was thinking i should tea, too.

4) Militarily, where is Japan? I was thinking mostly jsut strogn defenders, almsot no navy?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

1) You can make your own tech trees and have tech be civ-specific as well... Also, you can turn off the Chinese ability to build Frigates if you don't want them to have them.

2) The choices for where to put cotton is sound, HOWEVER, one of the big problems with civ is that one supply of a commodity is enough to satisfy a country no matter what, of any size, forever. My suggestion is to put Cotton within the regions of Egypt, India, and Central Asia, but do not have roads connecting to them. It was, in fact, not until after the cotton embargo of the South that the real attempts to exploit these other regions was made.

3)Tea. Also Opium might be a good choice as well.

4) At this point, Japan has been "reopened" to the world, but it is a very tenuous situation. The Shogun is making some attempts to modernize but not very much. There are repeated acts of violence against foreigners, which bring harsh retaliation. The Allied assault on the Straits of Shimoneski in 1864 is a prime example of such retaliation. Out of this violence, however, the Japanese realize they need to make some serious changes. That's why in 1868, the Meiji Restoration takes place restoring the Emperor to power. The civil war is short, but the Shogun escapes to Ezo (Hokkaido) where efforts are made to set up a new country.

The Japanese will begin the building of a navy after the attack on the Straits of Shimoneski, but they will not be constructing them themselves. Rather, they will be buying them from foreigners. The Shogun actually purchased the CSS Stonewall from the US government which was selling off all of the Confederate weaponry. The ship was renamed the Kotetsu, but was actually lost to the Imperial forces, and the Imperial navy turned around and used it in the bombardment of Hakodate Bay in 1869, paving the way for the amphibious invasion that would bring any hope of a rival Japanese country of the Republic of Ezo to an end.

 

[Mithadan]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
1861 is a big year in the world...

Absolutely fascinating! I'd love to play a good scenario based on this time period! All I knew about what was happening around here was the birth of Canada and the Franco-Prussian war, etc. etc.

kcck, I hope your spelling is better in the scenario than it is on the thread, though.

 

[kcck]

"1) You can make your own tech trees and have tech be civ-specific as well... Also, you can turn off the Chinese ability to build Frigates if you don't want them to have them."

-i dont want to make another tech tree. too much work and creativity, lol. did china buidl any frigates? its jsut that i dont want china to be too powerful ,but i suppose theyll have their hands full when i make the Taipang Rebellion a seperate country. Wat gov. shld thye be? monarchy? Ive found where in china they were, so i dotn need any help w/ that.

"2) The choices for where to put cotton is sound, HOWEVER, one of the big problems with civ is that one supply of a commodity is enough to satisfy a country no matter what, of any size, forever. My suggestion is to put Cotton within the regions of Egypt, India, and Central Asia, but do not have roads connecting to them. It was, in fact, not until after the cotton embargo of the South that the real attempts to exploit these other regions was made."

-ok, well, if im gonna put cotton in, i firs need ot know how to MAKE cotton. HELP!!!!! I NEED STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS!!!!

"3)Tea. Also Opium might be a good choice as well."

-thnx

"4) At this point, Japan has been "reopened" to the world, but it is a very tenuous situation. The Shogun is making some attempts to modernize but not very much. There are repeated acts of violence against foreigners, which bring harsh retaliation. The Allied assault on the Straits of Shimoneski in 1864 is a prime example of such retaliation. Out of this violence, however, the Japanese realize they need to make some serious changes. That's why in 1868, the Meiji Restoration takes place restoring the Emperor to power. The civil war is short, but the Shogun escapes to Ezo (Hokkaido) where efforts are made to set up a new country.

The Japanese will begin the building of a navy after the attack on the Straits of Shimoneski, but they will not be constructing them themselves. Rather, they will be buying them from foreigners. The Shogun actually purchased the CSS Stonewall from the US government which was selling off all of the Confederate weaponry. The ship was renamed the Kotetsu, but was actually lost to the Imperial forces, and the Imperial navy turned around and used it in the bombardment of Hakodate Bay in 1869, paving the way for the amphibious invasion that would bring any hope of a rival Japanese country of the Republic of Ezo to an end."

-ok, so ill take that as meaning where i have japan, jsut 1 tech farther ahead of china, but still not industrialized and on par w/ the west, as beign correct

One other uqestion:

1) Southest Asia. Since I want France ot have a foothold, but i want it to be historically correc,t should i jsut give France cambodia and southern vietnam (Cochin China?) Where shld southeat asia be on the etch tree? Same as China, im thinking?

 

[kcck]

bump

 

[kcck]

one other thing:

I know someone commented on me makign Germany a country, even though it wasnt at this point. I am doing so because I dont want 5 cities in Germany, each beign a different country. I figure thye would be very weak, and owuld be sittign ducks for the AI.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

That was me... well, here's my recommendation, call it Prussia anyway, or call it "Prussia & Allies" if you can fit it. If one of the cities you're going to include is Bavarian, however, add it to Austria instead.

 

[Al Zan]

how are you planing to make this?
is it goning be many maps?

 

[kcck]

it will be on marlasinger's earth map from PTW, but i improted it ot conquests, and will be addign soem of the new resources (i.e. sugar)

If ANYBODY knows how to make new resources, PLEASE know!

 

[kcck]

oh, one other thing:

Wat goverment shoudl the Taipang Rebellion have?