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Help with armed forces?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by xXArmedMoeXx, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. xXArmedMoeXx

    xXArmedMoeXx Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
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    Location:
    It Depends..
    Well, for some reason I can never create a strong military! Here are examples of my scores in games.
    (diffuculty Noble or Monarch.)
    In Games I played specifically games with 6+ civs they are always strong civs. Usually something I call the Top 3. They have a massive strong army. and I can't even defend my self from a weak civ?! Like number 8 or something. In ryhes fall of civilization Spain went crazy and colonized a lot. The french went berserk They conquered a lot of civs. and made them Vassal states I say they had 5 vassals.... I want to be powerful like that too :(

    1. American empire 1600
    2. Russian empire 1579
    3. German empire 1540
    4. Chinese Empire 1495
    5. Japanese Empire 1420
    6. Roman Empire 1375
    7. Spanish Empire (Me) 600 - 800

    The numbers are the scores.

    Here are my main issues
    1. I never win I repeat I never win wars. (embarrassing)
    2. I'm always behind in technology.

    My good things lol?
    1. I can get a strong economy like 20+ Gold per turn or sometimes 50+ (depending on the situation.)
    2. I don't like having over 5 Cities which makes it easier to manage my economy. especially so far from me in Ryhes fall or civilization for BTS in spain.)


    Now if you guys care (I hope! :eek: ) Can you please tell me how to get a Strong army? Or even give me some tips n pointers.

    (Extra Question do they curse in Civ 4 BTS? Because saladin called me a Jacka** >_>)
     
  2. oldskald

    oldskald Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
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    Before we can really give advice about your armies we need to know how you construct them (i.e. what mixture of units do you use to create a stack), and also how do you produce your military (what civics are you using)?

    Something you might find useful is this:http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/offensive_military_stack

    I would say that it sounds to me that you might need a larger empire. This will result in higher maintenance costs but these can be offset somewhat by the construction of courthouses, and also give you access to greater production and resources that might be vital either directly (iron, copper, horses, etc), or indirectly (happy resources) to the military functioning of your "usual" style of empire.

    Lastly, what settings do you usually play (difficulty, map size, duration of game)?
     
  3. AJ11

    AJ11 Emperor

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    5 cities is your problem if this is mid-late game (which, from the scores, this looks to be). Once you get Currency, you should be going crazy with the cities. More cities = more research + more production = win.
     
  4. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Gaining gold does not a strong economy make. The fact you are falling behind in tech actually says that your economy is very weak, not strong.

    If your playing on standard sized maps then 6 cities should be considered absolute bare minimum, if you have fewer than that you can't even build important national wonders like Oxford, the Ironworks or Globe Theatre.

    Winning wars usually comes form having overwhelming force, your going to struggle to amass this with so few cities. Apart from that targetting resources and core cities will reduce the AIs ability to fight back during wars, and seige units are the the kings of war till at least aircraft or nukes are available.
     
  5. xXArmedMoeXx

    xXArmedMoeXx Chieftain

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    It Depends..

    During miedeval Age and Rena. I generally have 4 swordmens and 3 longbowmen In each City. As for the civics I Usually use Free religion(once I get it. But for now ORganized Religion), State Property, Police State, Free market...

    Difficulty would be Noble. Map Size varies Small to Huge. I'm not sure what you mean by duration. The speed Settings is Normal.
    when I start off for some reason I always get horse and iron. So that good!. In RoC I play as the Spanish Empire and my goals is there goals. But I cannot achieve any if I'm weak with my Armed forces. I can expand when I want to but I freak out if I'm debt.

    Civilization IV and III is my favorite game despite the fact I always lose but it would be nice to win :)..


    Also one more thing If i have a strong economy right? Should I build 5+ Defensive Units and 6+ Offensive units? So when I go to war I send my Offensive and the defensive stays in my city?


    My military strategy is bad. But I send my some forces along with cannons and the results was very satisifying for me. So I send Siege along with offensive. About 3 stacks of them attacking 3 different cities simultaneosly?

    (sorry for my horrible english i'm just tired)

    @Ghpstage
    I have no comment for that but I really must suck XD
     
  6. Mozzington

    Mozzington Prince

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    Location:
    England.
    Somebody once told me that you never really need anymore than 2-3 defenders in any one city at one time.

    It's worked for me alright. As long as units from your other cities can get there fairly quickly should a sneak attack happen.

    As previous posters have mentioned, this is all probably down to lack of cities which in turn means lack of production, lack of research etc.

    5 cities is good.........for 1000BC.

    You need more cities. Don't worry about the research slider being down to 20% or lower at this point. Remember you can always trade for techs.

    You need to stay one step ahead of the competition military wise. A modern army is the difference.

    Try beelining for Oracle wonder - one free tech advance is a huge advantage.
    Make sure you build the Great Library and then National Epic in the same city and spam those Great Scientists.
    I tend to beeline for Liberalism - another free tech.
    Beeline for steel to enable cannons. A stack of cannons with your attackers should be enough to destroy any civ still with trebuchets and catapults.

    It would be worthwhile you posting a save game so the people here with more experience than myself can really get to the bottom of your problems.

    Remember 5 cities is not enough.
     
  7. xXArmedMoeXx

    xXArmedMoeXx Chieftain

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    Thanks for the tips I'll try it today, I don't want to expand too fast though otherwise I'll be in debt like USA is xD..
     
  8. Army of Scouts

    Army of Scouts Noble Cheater

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    are you building cottages and working them? They provide commerce which you can use to produce research.How about libraries? You definitly need more cities. Follow this rule: more cities, more cottages, more reseach and production, etc. See a pattern? More, more ,more.

    What techs are you researching? Do you reseach military techs much (bronze working, iron working)?

    There is so much to say but to conclude: more cities and cottages and just how many units do you build anyway? and remember you never have enough!:cool:
     
  9. oldskald

    oldskald Warlord

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    Thanks for the further information.

    You mention that for an empire of 5 cities you have about 20 swordsmen in the medieval/renaissance era.

    As a group of offensive infantry this isn't awful, but could be much, much better. For a start you need to go for a combined arms policy, so that an offensive stack of 20 units might look more like this:

    About 8 Trebuchets/Cannon
    About 8 Macemen
    About 4 other units as either stack defenders (pikemen) or city garrison for captured cities.

    I would also recommend adding in mounted units.

    The point about cIV combat is that it works a bit like the game "scissors-paper-stone", so that each type of military unit (offensive infantry, defensive infantry, siege units, mounted) has an important role to play. If your stack is composed of only one or two of the different types of military units you may be more likely to struggle.

    Lastly, when you go to war remember to keep producing units (particularly siege units) to replace any losses you might suffer, and to expand your offensive capability.

    You also mention that with about 20 swordsmen you are splitting your stack and targeting 3 enemy cities. I would suggest that your army is far too small to be doing this. With a good tech lead (which you don't have) I would suggest you would need 20 units in each stack before thinking about splitting you stack - so 40 units makes 2 stacks of 20, 60 units makes 3 stacks, etc, although this is not an exact science, and depends on what your opponents have. WHich makes using explorers/scouts.spies to find out the military strength of your opponents before you go to war very important.
     
  10. Mozzington

    Mozzington Prince

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    Location:
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    Make sure you have at least four cities by 1000bc.

    What is your opening build que?

    Make sure it looks something like this:

    Worker
    Warrior - to garrison first city.
    Settler
    Worker
    Worker
    Settler.

    (Perhaps work boats if coastal)

    Then you can start thinking about granaries and libraries - the two most important buildings for any city. Throw a lighthouse in there for coastal cities too. Monuments are good for popping borders early too.

    Remember to build plenty of workers. They can really get your cities up and running fast.

    Chop those forrests, the hammers will come in handy.

    The quicker you are working all available tiles the better.

    Good point made earlier by someone about the cottages - get them built early and make sure they are being worked inside the city screen (white circle around them).

    Try playing as Elizabeth - she gets a financial bonus which could come in really handy for you.
     
  11. Army of Scouts

    Army of Scouts Noble Cheater

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    This is epicly good advice. remember 10 cities making 10 research beakers at 40% reseach is more research than 4 cities at 10 beakers at 90%
     
  12. Skallagrimson

    Skallagrimson Deity

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    The signal to go into crash mode I used to think was Currency but actually is Writing. With Writing you whip libraries in every city and get scientists working, yielding beakers. That will be all the beakers you need to keep up in technology while the commerce revenue from tiles can potentially up to 100% (0% slider) be used for funding the costs of the empire.

    Land is power.

    USA's problem is that after it settled its cities it never went out of crash mode. Name change to Derpistan, in progress.
     
  13. xXArmedMoeXx

    xXArmedMoeXx Chieftain

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    Thanks for the reply everyone I appreatiate it! Also I always build libraries,courthouse etc and markets too so I'll have a developed city than a undeveloped one
     
  14. Mozzington

    Mozzington Prince

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    Do you need a market in all your cities?
     
  15. Army of Scouts

    Army of Scouts Noble Cheater

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    Care to post a save? I won't be able to help with it but that is the best way this community can help. We can see directly what's wrong if you do.
     
  16. Mozzington

    Mozzington Prince

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    I'd second that. Post an initial save of one of your games and people can advise where to improve.

    Best way I learned after doing that was then starting a new game, posting the save, playing 20 turns, posting the save, playing another 20 and posting the save etc etc etc.

    This is probably the best comminity out there for help and advice and it's amazing how much doing the above will assist.
     
  17. Skallagrimson

    Skallagrimson Deity

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    Bang in beakers or gold yield improvement versus hammer-food "buck", that's what it's all about. If your maintenance is 2 GPT, chances are the hammers it takes to build a courthouse would be far far better spent on units or a building with a better yield improvement (like a marketplace if you're low-slider and the city has 20 GPT from cottages!) Courthouses for the sake of having courthouses, that goes by the wayside in more challenging levels of play.
     
  18. Sir Penguinboy

    Sir Penguinboy Chieftain

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    You should always be continually expanding, but never too fast.once you reach a certain piont later on expansion stops afffecting your economy as much. also u said you have a lot of gold, maybe u could use that to upgrade your units? Anyways i always use my millitary in stagess. Always have the latest seige weapons with your stacks untill you get flight.
    sword/axess to
    mace/pikes/knights to
    rifles/cavalry to
    infantry/cavalry to
    tanks and modern armor/ mech infantry.
    After awhile u start to have excessive older units and these make good gaurds for newly conquered cities. Units built for cities should be the archers or longbowmen untill u get machine guns. if your in a string of continuous wars with weaker civs dont be afraid to use a mix of new and old guys and make sure when going to war your first blow is strong, decisive and crippling. That is where you willl most likely see the most resistance.
     
  19. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Besides saves, screenshots are also nice. They enable all of us (who may or may not be posting at work) to take a look at what's going on.

    I tend to not build buildings until I need them (the early-game exception being granaries, forges, and one culture building to pop my borders). For example, when I discover Currency, only cities where I need the extra happiness or maybe one big commerce city will get Markets. The rest don't build them--if my happiness cap is 8, and the city only has 4 people, there is no reason to build any happiness buildings, especially an expensive Market. Usually, I only expand the cap when I plan on the city growing, and I'm getting close to the cap (within 1-2).

    Likewise, I don't leave large garrisons in my back ranks. Most of my cities, especially internal ones, only have 1 unit guarding them (sometimes an outdated warrior or archer). My border cities might have 2-3 ('modern' defenders, in the early game usually a mix including at least one archer-type with city defense and a spear/pike). The rest of my army is a mobile force on the fronts.

    If you don't have a dedicated military production city, it helps. Settle any great generals you get in one good production city. Add the Heroic Epic when it becomes available, and pump out units. Instead of 'just' the barracks promotion, you will have 2-3 promotions, which greatly increases your troops' survival rate.
     
  20. Dumanios

    Dumanios MLG

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    Build cities whenever possible and practical.

    PRACTICAL: When there's good land between you and opponent A.
    PRACTICAL: When there's OK land between you and opponent B
    IMPRACTICAL: When you're losing money at 20% Science, stop building cities and get the economy stabilized. Build Courthouses, Markets, Ikhandas(Zulu exclusive), Grocers, anything that give $$$ or reduces Maintenance.
    IMPRACTICAL: Building cities in large stretches of Desert and Tundra. Let the AI waste their time with these cities.
     

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