Help with Dom Limit!!

[puremorning]

Hi all,

I'm having some trouble understanding the domination limit as identified with MapStat. I recently started a HOF attempt on Chieftan on Huge/panagea and loaded several maps into Mapstat. For each one it tells me the Landmass Dom. Limit is between 4400 and 4750 or so.

Reading some other threads here I'm seeing typical limits of 3000 - 4000 (with later 3xxx limits being considered excellent) ... so, is the 4400 etc. I'm getting actually the map size (from which I have to manually calculate the dom. limit) or am I completely misunderstanding something?

Just a little background that may help ... I'm playing vanilla CivIII (I just bought it a month ago after playing CivII for the past few months - yea, I know, I'm *way* behind and a definite newb!!!). My current map (I'm in 1060 AD and have essentially a view of the entire map, save for some sea squares), is actually 2 continents. I have what appears to be about 70 - 75% of the bigger continent covered and about 10 isolated cities on the smaller one.

At a visual glance of the map, I'd estimate I'm covering about 50 - 60% at most of the entire landmass. According to MapStat - and if the dom.limit # is actually the total tile numbers - I've got 3016 out of 4589 tiles (this 2nd # comes from the Landmass Dom. Limit figure in the utility). 3016 of 4589 is about 65% ... so I'm confused. Should I be pushing to inhabit ALL 4589 tiles (which it looks to me like it would be more than 66% of the land) or am I essentially at my limit?

Obviously, I don't want to play another turn until I can confirm!!!

Thanks in advance for any tips/help.

 

[superslug]

There's different versions of MapStat, I think. Can you post a screenshot of your numbers so I might can interpret them better?

BTW: Welcome to CFC!

 

[superslug]

On second thought, I found a shot I had of one of my MapStats!

(BTW, screenshot posting info can by found in the FAQ )

Anyway, here's the critical information:
The numbers in the right column are irrelevant. It's the one on the bottom left you need be concerned with. If it's negative, you're over the tile limit. If both the bottom numbers are negative, you'll trigger domination.

Two continents would explain higher numbers than usual, as it means more coastal tiles (the only water tiles that contribute to domination).

Aeson, the HOF moderator has ruled you're allowed to reload if you trigger Domination. However, running Mapstat at the end of every turn is a good habit to have just as a time-saver.

As you can see, this game was only 2 tiles short of Domination:

 

[puremorning]

Ahh, yes should have done that already (also new to posting with attachments

The mapstat program is easy enough to understand, and certainly makes sense ... when I look again at my map screen shot it certainly looks like i've got lots of room to grow!

I guess I was thrown off by the dom. limit you and others seem to have while *EVERY* map I load is reading at 4400+ limit ... so I was/still am convinced I'm missing something!?!!?! I'm not that lucky

( btw, looks like we're both on the forum at the same time... thanks for your speedy replies superslug!)

 

[superslug]

4589???
You said Vanilla civ? What patch are you under??!!

Anyway, you're in no danger of triggering domination. You've got 1500 tiles to go.

 

[puremorning]

Originally posted by superslug
4589???
You said Vanilla civ? What patch are you under??!!

Anyway, you're in no danger of triggering domination. You've got 1500 tiles to go.

Ahh, so I think now I'm seeing what has happened... patches? what patches? I just got the game so I'm assuming none. Anyway, I guess I should ask: Are non-patch games eligible for HOF? I checked the HOF instructions and unless I'm blind I didn't see any mention...

And since I'm regularly getting dom. limits over 4700 I'm thinking my HOF attempts should be scuttled until I get the patch(es) It cannot be fair

 

[superslug]

According to the version drop list on the submission page, I would assume that non-patch games are indeed legal, since Aeson constructed the page. Since it's his determination what's fair, I'd say your okay to proceed!

That being the case, do not abandon your game. Finish it out and submit it. If you finish with a new high score (for whatever level you're own), we'll just have to beat it!

I would recommend patching after you finish though, as the game is much more balanced to play, as well as less crash prone!

 

[Aeson]

Previous to 1.21f the Huge map size was 180x180, now it's 170x170. I've been playing with the idea of allowing past patch versions for submission, not sure yet. The database and submission process was designed to allow for it just in case.

For right now, vanilla civ submissions need to be using 1.29f rules. You can download the patch from civfanatics.com patch listings.

 

[superslug]

I stand corrected. Thanks, Aeson!

 

[SirPleb]

Actually the previous huge map was 180*180 and it is now 160*160.

Allowing for the way the coordinates work (rotated sidewise, every second cell used) that results in 16200 vs. 12800 tiles in a huge map.

Taking 40% of that (for the lowest water setting of 60%), and then multiplying by 2/3 for the domination limit gives 4320 tiles to domination for the original game, 3413 tiles to domination for the patched game.

In practice we seem to see a higher average domination limit than those expected averages (4320 and 3413.) This is something in the nature of the map generation, perhaps the fact that coastal tiles count toward domination. And then of course there are variations from one map to another

 

[puremorning]

Thanks for the clarification Aesop. I'll patch up and start again.

 

[IgrOK[SU]]

I have a question about Dom. limit: "I need some population for it? Or only land?".

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by IgrOK
I have a question about Dom. limit: "I need some population for it? Or only land?".

To win by domination, you need to be over both the domination limit for land AND population. The domination limit is 2/3 of the total for both of these...

 

[superslug]

You can check both these limits with the ever wonderful Mapstat utility.

EDIT:...which I seem to have mentioned already in this thread last month...

 

[Corkmaster]

My thanks to superslug for explaining the Mapstat programme which I had never used before this week. I had been trying to get beyond my usual 8-9k diety scores without triggering Domination in the vain hope of getting somewhere close to the amazing scores recorded on the HOF.
Thanks to Mapstat I have just managed to get to 14508pts in 1959 when of course I got a cultural victory. Damm.
Still enjoyed breaking my own puny record, thanks again.