Help with Raging Barbs!

IvanDolvich2

Order of Lenin
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
157
Location
Japanese Imperial Army
Ok, I've been seriously struggling with Raging Barbs in the COTM65 (Emperor, C3C, Spain, raging barbs). I've lost buildings, improvements, money, population, workers, and settlers to the bleeping bastards. :blush:

I'm not an AW player, and I do Emperor well. (haven't lost one in a long time, but that's about to change.)

So what is the key to expanding in a Barb environment? What is the magic date that Barb camps start appearing? What causes the 20x stack of Barb horse to move off the camp and raid my civ?:confused:

The one tactic I hit on is the pop one, undefended city with a tiny bank account to soak up the horde. Losing one gold per barb isn't that bad, and once the camp is empty its targetable by my warriors and archers.

So any help would be appreciated. I searched the forums and didn't find any war academy articles on the topic.
 
Uprisings are trigger whenever two nations enter a new age. So be ready for that. Prevention is the best way. Do not allow fog to be near your towns. Post a unit out in the fog to bust it. Barbs come from camps and cannot be created, unless in the fog.

As you have seen providing a town for them to attack that has no structures or units will be a way to reduce the numbers.

Bust any camps you find, before they go into uprising mode. Uprisings can have 16 units per camp. It is mainly Middle Ages that see uprising as there is little fog left by the next age.
 
Uprisings are trigger whenever two nations enter a new age. So be ready for that. Prevention is the best way. Do not allow fog to be near your towns. Post a unit out in the fog to bust it. Barbs come from camps and cannot be created, unless in the fog.

Thanks for the advice, I think I'll do this one over as a learning tool. I definitely did not bust fog like I should have. I didn't pop two warriors to start, and I didn't keep settlers escorted nor workers.

Is there an answer on when the camps first spawn? I explore the map for quite a while before I see any camps.
 
If you are having that many problems on Raging Barbs, you might also consider building the Great Wall, which gives you a combat boost against them. And if you are playing Raging, never send out a settler or a worker without a combat unit, as the AI seems to home the Barbs on them. Lastly, if there are any Barb camps on the coast, you are also going to be hit with streams of Barb galleys from an uprising.

I normally play with the Barbarian combat units the Swordsman/Cossack/Privateer, which at times makes things quite interesting.
 
I wrote something of a tutorial on this a while back (under Empire Management). The search function on here seems to miss a lot of stuff. Here's the last part of my tutorial to save you time.

"This article came about because of COTM48 with the Byzantines on Demi-God. I now prefer a far simpler strategy... and it seems far more effective.

1. Build your settler factory.
2. Build warriors in most of your other towns... maybe a settler at some point... and a very, very small handful of workers at some point also... but mostly warriors.
3. Leave warriors in your towns only if you need them as military police, otherwise send your warriors out. Try to have them move in teams of at least 2.
4. Attack an encampment only when you have two warriors that can attack.
5. Try to attack horseman as much as possible, and try to get horseman to attack you as little as possible.
6. Try to use the mountains to "keep an eye" on as much territory as possible, so few new encampments pop up.
7. Try to use some warriors to found "settler corridors"... lanes or areas that all look "light " instead of "fogged" with warriors standing nearby. Your settlers can travel down such a path with little to no fear of getting sacked immediately by an unexpected barbarian... and can found a town in an instant (usually) if a barbarian pops nearby.
8. When the middle age rush appears (hordes instantly appear when you hit the middle ages) don't even and try and fight them. On lower levels you might have enough of an army to defeat them. On higher levels, forget it... the middle age hordes come too early (at least for COTM 48 they did). Buy luxuries, technology, city improvements, more warriors... whatever you can from the AIs or *find a banker*. Sell a tribe 400 gold for 19 gpt or something like that and take smaller hits from the barbarians than you would have otherwise and get your cash back.

So, basically the strategy comes as forget culture except if you really, really need it on some border town. Forget building lots of early workers... build a skelton crew of workers if say you need to build the Great Library and basically no more. Pump out those settlers, but not too many or too fast. *Build WARRIORS (not spearman, not archers, not catapults) like crazy*. If you get iron soon enough you might successfully do some warrior upgrades and have some swordsman... but if you don't... don't worry... you only really need warriors... just a good number of them. This strategy I bet will almost always work, because it gives you sufficient numbers fast... since warriors cost only 10 shields to build AND barbarian warriors and horseman have only 2 hit points... so a regular warrior on the attack has the advantage over a barbarian warrior or horseman. Basically, I'd say to build warriors and settlers and go hunting/scouting for barbarians (you might need a curragh or two for some contacts along the way... of course). Try COTM48 with the Byzantines as a game for this."

I think the May COTM with the Vikings on Deity also had you on an island isolated with raging barbies. Thing is, on Deity level you get NO combat bonuses against barbies, while on Demi-God level you get a 50% combat bonus, and I believe it's 100% on Emperor level. To perhaps clarify 7. a bit, you don't strictly need an escort for your settlers, in the sense that you don't necessarily need a unit on top of the settler IF you have military units *around* the settler on all sides to bust the fog. You have more fog busted this way also, and as long as a square remains light, no new encampment can pop up there. Best of luck.
 
and as long as a square remains light, no new encampment can pop up there.

I'm pretty sure that the square has to be watched by a combat unit. Workers and settlers don't keep barbs from appearing, if I remember correctly.
 
You're right CKS, but to get a bit more precise, a new encampment won't pop up if a combat unit can see a square *or* the city's culture can see the square (which means one square outside of the cultural borders even if it has no units). At least, I feel pretty sure on that.
 
Wow, you guys! Thanks a ton! Spoonwood: Great breakdown, That was what I was looking for. Chamnix: Great pointers from SirPleb!!! This could be a good topic for the war academy.

Thanks again. I'm pretty sure that I will tackle this game again, to implement these tactics so that I learn from this great advice by doing.
 
I hope this isn't seen as a highjack, I think it's on topic

I'm curious- I always put barbs to random. Does raging barbs help (or hurt less, I suppose) the player or the AI? Does it matter what civ traits you have (expansionist) or what kind of map you're playing on?
 
I hope this isn't seen as a highjack, I think it's on topic

I'm curious- I always put barbs to random. Does raging barbs help (or hurt less, I suppose) the player or the AI? Does it matter what civ traits you have (expansionist) or what kind of map you're playing on?

I like the threadjack, go for it. Can anyone answer Splunge's question?

Just an aside. I have gone back to replay the same game to try to implement lessons I learned here. - I have done much better with using warriors to keep fog busted. When the Middle Age uprising Occurred I did have a number of camps nearby with 20 horse each. The horsies pretty quickly ate my fog busters, but the neighbors sent lots of warriors to help kill barbs. I was able to find a banker who could pay 14 Gpt so I unloaded a bunch of gold there, and then gave some of the other away and let about 4 horse steal a bit of gold from an outlying town. The barbs acted differently and wandered more. I did lose population from a few towns that didn't have enough defenders. I was able to gain a few elite warriors from counterattacks, then about this time my iron got hooked up and upgraded some warriors to swords. By the time the barbs were all dealt with, I had 6 Elite swords ready to help me put the smack down on the neighbors.

I did change the settings to NoAiPatrol=0 which I didn't have before. I'm still not clear exactly what change this makes, but for COTM games, that is the recommended setting.
 
It depends on the level. On upper levels, generally speaking, the more barbarians, the worse things for the human player and better for the AIs. On lower levels, it's pretty much the other way around.
 
The patrol flag was put in to deal with situations where the AI had a few units on a small town. The unit(s) would march around on those few tiles, till their movement was used. This delayed the game.

So they turned if off and the IBT was a bit faster. It is very useful on really large maps, like 250x250 more than 16 civs.

The problem is that it caused the barbs to not move on all the lines and you could have a town next to a stack and they never attacked. You could have a unit or two next to some barbs and they did not attack.

This matters little in most games played above emperor or games at Monarch/Emp with little room for barbs to crop up.

Raging barbs are if no concern at high levels as the AI will soon clear the map and prevent camps from forming. Many players play Regent or less on large or huge maps. Often they play with less than the default nations.

What that means is that you have a lot of land under fog and barbs can get to be numerous. Still it does not have to be an issue, IF you post sentries far out. No the camps will be so far away, you have time to gather a force to deal with them.

They come at the start of the middle ages, so you can get a couple of pikes and a few MDI and have no problems clearing them out.
 
Thanks Spoonwood and VMXA. VMXA, your strategy makes sense if you know the barb activity you're playing is raging. If you play a random settings game or a competition and don't know the barb activity level do you by default post sentries or save your resouces, gambling on quieter barbs?
 
Thanks Spoonwood and VMXA. VMXA, your strategy makes sense if you know the barb activity you're playing is raging. If you play a random settings game or a competition and don't know the barb activity level do you by default post sentries or save your resouces, gambling on quieter barbs?

I would agree with Spoonwood that on lower levels, the barbs hurt the AI more than they do you, especially if you boost them at all, like I do.

If I have the barbs set to random, I do not gamble on quieter barbs until I have done a fair bit of exploring. Even then, I always tend to play it safe.
 
Thanks Spoonwood and VMXA. VMXA, your strategy makes sense if you know the barb activity you're playing is raging. If you play a random settings game or a competition and don't know the barb activity level do you by default post sentries or save your resouces, gambling on quieter barbs?

I do not worry about barbs at all. Most games I play will be either AWE or AWDG or Sid. That means I will have lots of troops. I will not be out exploring at all in AW games as I am in no hurry to find a new enemy.

Incoming AI troops will face the barbs and any getting to me, I will kill. Yes I do have a few times, where I get a pillaging barb, before I or the AI gets it.

Sid, forget barbs, they start with so many units, barbs are toast. Now in an SG I may have to deal with barbs. I can afford 3 or 4 units out to bust fog as I get near the end of the AA. No need to "save resources" to that degree.

In fact most Sid game I am aware of, will play with no barbs. Two reason 1) huts are not much value to the human at Sid. 2) it helps the AI, not hurts them. Why, they get that 25 gold from camps. They get the promotions, from killing them. The lost of units is of no concern to a Sid level AI. They pay 4 shields for a warrior.
 
Back
Top Bottom