Here in murica we speak English! Anything else is offensive!

I think it's a mixed bag. I've now read that those who post their outrage on facebook are more likely to act, and I've read that those folks are also less likely to act. I think some issues are being expressed through the internet and some are being expressed for the internet and it's not easy to know which is which.

The libertarian police state thrives on progressivism aimed at personal freedom and social justice, which are really important(!) but nevertheless give the system the space it needs to keep abusing while the citizens remain content in their righteous but limited activism and in their self-righteous indignation at their enemy the cretins.

Seriously, drone warfare is one of the most oppressive experiences I can fathom. You literally live in a village and for a year there's just a drone every day doing rounds about the sky, and then a year goes by and all the sudden it launches a rocket and kills innocent people you care about, and then it just sits there, hovering above you like a giant insect, and you never know when it's going to strike again.

But we're okay with that because we're not the racists and homophobes
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Uh, you do realize that drones do not kill villagers due to their sexuality or race, right? They just kill what is around. Death of a villager in Pakistan<verbal attack against a minority. Please stop being racist. :scan:
 
Exactly.

The flipside of course is that issues of social justice and personal liberty are both closer to home and something that "slacktivism" can actually improve. So that's where Aelf is right that isn't some noise better than pure apathy?

My concern is that we have the right level of noise to think we're doing enough. Hell I don't even live close to a carbon neutral lifestyle wtf do I know. I'm boosting the wireless signal (aka more electricity required) when I have an ethernet cord two feet away. But it's more comfortable to lie in bed without wires.
 
Seriously, drone warfare is one of the most oppressive experiences I can fathom. ...

But we're okay with that because we're not the racists and homophobes.

Well taken on that point. I have to imagine that emergency vehicle sirens being justifiably considered a warning of danger rather than of safety due to ethnicity, locale of residence, and income level starts to get up there though. The drone you can hate relatively cleanly, but you almost wind up both needing and fearing the police simultaneously if you live in a rough enough neighborhood even in the borning ol' states. Or if you happen to be an immigrant with a family but the wrong papers.
 
Well taken on that point. I have to imagine that emergency vehicle sirens being justifiably considered a warning of danger rather than of safety due to ethnicity, locale of residence, and income level starts to get up there though. The drone you can hate relatively cleanly, but you almost wind up both needing and fearing the police simultaneously if you live in a rough enough neighborhood even in the borning ol' states. Or if you happen to be an immigrant with a family but the wrong papers.
Badass post.

That's really interesting, because that there is the cross section of the two. Was that intentional? Attacking racism and attacking the drug war, two of our facebook activities, actually will help alleviate this problem in the long run.

I just got schooled.
 
You misdiagnose the real strength of public sentiment. It's not a measure of how likely the public is to take action, it tells you where the weight of history lies; it measures how much progress has been achieved. Public sentiment is not a precursor to any movement, but the wake of one that ensures the defeat of the opposition. For example, one of the shifts we are witnessing is the acceptance of same-sex relationships, and the weight of public sentiment will ensure that this movement completes.

EDIT: Granted, public sentiment can be ahead of real movements for change, and in those cases I agree they may be of limited value. I don't think that's the case for the subject matter of this thread, though.
 
To be fair, English is a difficult language, and I don't expect them to learn it. I tried learning Spanish, and I couldn't, so I can't expect them to learn English.
You learned to speak English. Their children learn to speak it in public schools without any great difficulty.

What many undocumented immigrants lack is the proper exposure to learn a new language. They live in a constant fear of being deported so they keep contact to those who do not speak their own language to a minimum. It isn't that they don't want to learn English as much as they don't have the opportunity to do so.


Link to video.
 
You misdiagnose the real strength of public sentiment. It's not a measure of how likely the public is to take action, it tells you where the weight of history lies; it measures how much progress has been achieved. Public sentiment is not a precursor to any movement, but the wake of one that ensures the defeat of the opposition. For example, one of the shifts we are witnessing is the acceptance of same-sex relationships, and the weight of public sentiment will ensure that this movement completes.

I like this post quite a bit but I'm going to have to ask you to define public sentiment because what is an isn't included really affects the rest of the post.

edit: just saw your edit, it helps, but still curious.
 
Was that intentional? Attacking racism and attacking the drug war, two of our facebook activities

Before attributing any ideas of cleverness to my ramblings on this topic, bear in mind I've never logged onto friendface, or twitter, or blogspot. I think there is probably a type of value in those communications, like there is a type of value in the communication that occurs in places like CFC. But it's easy to overestimate that value. Wandering around campus seeing people doing their activism by "raising awareness" gets old. I mean, raising awareness is great, it's a valuable activity. But it doesn't do work work. If it's not coupled with more concrete action it's sorta like trolling/advertising for somebody else to do the work you hope gets done.

You misdiagnose the real strength of public sentiment. It's not a measure of how likely the public is to take action, it tells you where the weight of history lies; it measures how much progress has been achieved. Public sentiment is not a precursor to any movement, but the wake of one that ensures the defeat of the opposition. For example, one of the shifts we are witnessing is the acceptance of same-sex relationships, and the weight of public sentiment will ensure that this movement completes.

EDIT: Granted, public sentiment can be ahead of real movements for change, and in those cases I agree they may be of limited value. I don't think that's the case for the subject matter of this thread, though.

I think I'm reading this wrongly. Your argument is public sentiment is generally the measuring stick of what opinions are winning out in a given moment? And that in itself has value? I would find that to be value-neutral ethically. More useful than valuable, if that makes sense. Or rather, are you making that case that public sentiment is a momentum augmentation to social/legal change? At which point I would definitely put the ethical value as neutral. In the context of that sort of argument I would say I watched sentiment's momentum make my country a far less noble place in some very important ways 2001 - present. I don't even think the pendulum has necessarily stopped swinging towards security instead of freedom since that fateful September when I was 20.
 
I wasn't offended by the ad at all, but I was confused. I have only watched it once, when it aired live, and my first reaction was, why are all these kids in different countries singing American the beautiful? You see, I didn't even realize they were supposed to be American's of different ethnic groups singing in their native languages. Aside from some spanish in the southwest, and gangster movies where you see old guys talking in italian, and maybe so and so's grandma who spoke polish or russian or whatever, where are you that you are exposed to these other languages on a regular basis? I like in a very diverse area (metro detroit) with a huge indian, asian and middle eastern population and still don't ever notice people speaking in arabic en mass for example. They might at home. They certainly wouldn't be singing pop songs in arabic in public. So it just seems weird to me all these kids were singing like this cus in reality it would never happen. It's a made up fairy tale by coke and kind of dumb. But not offensive.
 
You learned to speak English. Their children learn to speak it in public schools without any great difficulty.

What many undocumented immigrants lack is the proper exposure to learn a new language. They live in a constant fear of being deported so they keep contact to those who do not speak their own language to a minimum. It isn't that they don't want to learn English as much as they don't have the opportunity to do so.


Link to video.

I have to agree with you there. And the same with me, without immersion into the language (doing Rosetta stone once a week wasn't cutting it), I would never learn it. But I still think some people learn languages easier than others. Had I taken Spanish in elementary school, I think I'd be much better.

I wasn't offended by the ad at all, but I was confused. I have only watched it once, when it aired live, and my first reaction was, why are all these kids in different countries singing American the beautiful? You see, I didn't even realize they were supposed to be American's of different ethnic groups singing in their native languages. Aside from some spanish in the southwest, and gangster movies where you see old guys talking in italian, and maybe so and so's grandma who spoke polish or russian or whatever, where are you that you are exposed to these other languages on a regular basis? I like in a very diverse area (metro detroit) with a huge indian, asian and middle eastern population and still don't ever notice people speaking in arabic en mass for example. They might at home. They certainly wouldn't be singing pop songs in arabic in public. So it just seems weird to me all these kids were singing like this cus in reality it would never happen. It's a made up fairy tale by coke and kind of dumb. But not offensive.

I do see Hispanics speak Spanish on a regular basis, but I have to agree with you. Most people aren't going to speak their native tongue in public, let alone sing in public. Although we do have many Mexican groups perform at clubs around town, and they sing in their native tongue, but they would never sing God bless America. Most seem to have more loyalty to Mexico than to America.

In fact, the more I think about it, I'd be happy if they were singing God Bless America instead of flying Mexican flags everywhere I see and celebrating Mexican holidays. I'd be happy if they showed some loyalty to America for a change. I feel good when I see a Mexican have an American flag on their car, but mostly I just see Mexican (or Central American countries) flags on their cars.
 
I do see Hispanics speak Spanish on a regular basis, but I have to agree with you. Most people aren't going to speak their native tongue in public, let alone sing in public. Although we do have many Mexican groups perform at clubs around town, and they sing in their native tongue, but they would never sing God bless America. Most seem to have more loyalty to Mexico than to America.

In fact, the more I think about it, I'd be happy if they were singing God Bless America instead of flying Mexican flags everywhere I see and celebrating Mexican holidays. I'd be happy if they showed some loyalty to America for a change. I feel good when I see a Mexican have an American flag on their car, but mostly I just see Mexican (or Central American countries) flags on their cars.
In all fairness, Las Vegas is only the United States because you guys stole it from Mexico. It seems only fair to meet them in the middle on this one.
 
I thought the Mexicans stole it from the Paiute? Who just happened on it, themselves, one day. While wandering around aimlessly.

According to the White Supremacists Nationalists, though, it's the White Race who have made it what it is today.

So they're, quite rightly, keeping it. Thank you.

(I may have misunderstood. But I thought that's what they said.)
 
Look. If God had done his job properly he'd have all these countries' borders outlined with white paint (like maps do). And the names of who they belong to embroidered into the ground.
 
Well, look at the world from space. It's basically green, orange or white. So it's all Irish, isn't it? Obvious, really, when you think about it.
 
I'm not sure this is good news. I mean, in some respects it is. But in others maybe less so.
 
Of course, over here, we understand that flying a flag makes a showoff, not a patriot.

I think there's a difference between "flying a flag" and "flying 20 flags and dressing yourself in one and painting your car like the flag".
 
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