hexs and border pops

[Slinko]

How many tiles does a fully expanded city contain?

1 for the city tile
6 for the first ring
12 for the second ring
18 for the third ring

In case anyone is interested I got this information from the a windows 7 paint file (which is attached) and the following website:

http://www.research.att.com/njas/sequences/index.html?q=1,6,12,18&language=english&go=Search

 

[VainApocalypse]

How many tiles does a fully expanded city contain?

1 for the city tile
6 for the first ring
12 for the second ring
18 for the third ring

In case anyone is interested I got this information from the a windows 7 paint file (which is attached) and the following website:

http://www.research.att.com/njas/sequences/index.html?q=1,6,12,18&language=english&go=Search

f(x)=6x!+1*
Where x is the radius from the city's tile
Where f(x) is the total number of tiles

Cities probably have a radius of two* (nineteen tiles), as it's the nearest to the total number of tiles seen in previous installments. Cities in IV could access twenty-one tiles.

*Edit

 

[Thyrwyn]

Actually, it is f(x)= 6(x!)+1 = 37

 

[Tomice]

Yes, it's 37. But most likely most of your cities will be smaller. You'll probably want to postion your cities close enough that they close the gaps within your empire by the midgame. Leaving so much space that every city gets all 37 possible tiles will be a waste of space for a huge part of the game.

I enjoy this development very much. Finally, we'll have naturally formed "provinces" without artificial gaps due to the form of the BFC. No longer will city placement be such a nuisance. I hated those gaps and overlaps!

 

[stealth_nsk]

I agree what making most cities unable to take all available territory is a very good step for city placement.

 

[bossconian]

What's the minimum gap between cities ? I had an impression that I've seen only one tile between two cities on some of the screenshots..

 

[Thyrwyn]

Given that few cities will ever reach size 25+, there is less need to ensure that there is no overlap between BFHs (Big Fat Hexes). In fact, there are advantages to building cities only 2-3 hexes away from each other, such as
1) faster cultural expansion since cities will not have to claim tiles already claimed by another city
2) less road upkeep due to the shorter distance; easier to defend.

This would be most viable in fertile areas, where each city would still have enough food to grow.

 

[SalmonSoil]

What's the minimum gap between cities ? I had an impression that I've seen only one tile between two cities on some of the screenshots..

That sounds excellent for world maps, maybe the Euro civs can finally achieve something now.

 

[Fragtopian]

That sounds excellent for world maps, maybe the Euro civs can finally achieve something now.

It might be weird if opposing cities started using their ranged attack skills to fire at each other... If that is even possible

 

[Tarkhan]

That sounds excellent for world maps, maybe the Euro civs can finally achieve something now.

I agree. On most world maps, Europe is so small based on scale that in Civ4, you end up with one of them conquering all the others, or a bunch of ineffective "city-states" that eventually get crushed by Russia.

 

[Tomice]

Also remember we have a shared pool of happiness now, which is the main growth prohibitor.

In civ4, a city that couldn't reach its happy cap due to a lack of food wasted its potential. In Civ5, you'll be able to grow other cities larger instead.

Also, some buildings will provide food, as will some city states. So the local food production is not that important any more.

Maybe the devs are not as stupid as some people here believe

 

[Olleus]

Given that few cities will ever reach size 25+.

How do you know this will be the case in Civ5?

 

[stealth_nsk]

How do you know this will be the case in Civ5?

Nobody knows. I expect city level to be higher with reworked farm/food system, but not dramatically.

 

[City Raider]

I'm a city builder and I often had size 30+ cities in Civ 4, although I do miss my size 42 cities from civ 2.

But with 37 hexes to work with, I'm looking forward to trying to build an empire of size 50 cities.
Heck, 60 should be reachable in the right spot.

 

[Tomice]

How do you know this will be the case in Civ5?

We do not know, but there are some hints:

1) I can't remember a screen of a city with 30+ citizens, most cities have sizes comparable to BtS.

2) It doesn't make sense to force players to leave huge distances between cities, which will not be populated before the endgame. From a gameplay perspective it seems better to allow more relaxed city placement.

3) Actually, there isn't much more I could tell you now. I just have a strong feeling we won't have many 30+ or even 40+ size cities. It always seemed they did not want to make cities bigger, but the form of city outskirts and process of city placement more natural. There was nothing wrong with the size of cities, but with the concept of BFCs.

 

[SuperSmash5]

We do not know, but there are some hints:

1) I can't remember a screen of a city with 30+ citizens, most cities have sizes comparable to BtS.

2) It doesn't make sense to force players to leave huge distances between cities, which will not be populated before the endgame. From a gameplay perspective it seems better to allow more relaxed city placement.

3) Actually, there isn't much more I could tell you now. I just have a strong feeling we won't have many 30+ or even 40+ size cities. It always seemed they did not want to make cities bigger, but the form of city outskirts and process of city placement more natural. There was nothing wrong with the size of cities, but with the concept of BFCs.

I thought that with happiness as the limiting factor, it would be very possible to have giant cities as long as you don't have that many of them.

For example, you could have 3 size 30 cities just as easily as you could have 9 size 10 cities.

Or am I wrong?

 

[Zhahz]

How do you know this will be the case in Civ5?

I'd base my guess purely on the fact that I never saw any really populous cities in any preview screenies yet.

But...it's just preview build/playing and not necessarily reflective of true game conditions.

Seems like most previewers do some expansion via warring and the happy cap effects for spreading out along with happy hits for conquest could've been a factor.

And some preview SS feature games in progress for modern stuff, not necessarily a game that's been played thru from the beginning, making it harder to judge anything.

I like to cultivate monster sized cities too - but in sprawling empires. So we'll see how it all plays out.

There could very well be other incentives/reasons for NOT growing so large.

 

[Tomice]

Well, isn't India's special ability indicating that there is both unhappiness from population and from number of cities?

I fear we'll have to wait and see, it could turn out that only 3 huge cities is the ideal way to go or something. I'm not sure, only playing the actual game will tell.

 

[Jaybe]

I thought that with happiness as the limiting factor, it would be very possible to have giant cities as long as you don't have that many of them.

For example, you could have 3 size 30 cities just as easily as you could have 9 size 10 cities.

Or am I wrong?

Since there is a happiness penalty for number of cities in addition to total population, it should be EASIER to have 3 large cities than more cities of equal population.

Countered by having less opportunity for happiness resources, of course.

Such is the power of Sid (I mean Civ!): It's NOT as simple as it seems.

 

[Polobo]

I thought that with happiness as the limiting factor, it would be very possible to have giant cities as long as you don't have that many of them.

For example, you could have 3 size 30 cities just as easily as you could have 9 size 10 cities.

Or am I wrong?

Not just as easily since the food requirements required to increase a level appear to (and always have) increased as city size gets larger. Thus total amount of surplus food generated for 3 size 30 cities will be more than for 9 size 10 cities.

That said, a farm city will be much easier to sustain since the added happiness requirements can be met by other citites (via buildings) and the super-city can just focus on farms. So, your food resource citites will be able to grow very large/quickly while your resource cities can grow enough to work the productive tiles.

With proper overlap the food city and production cities can share the food tiles early game and then later turn over all the food tiles to the food city while the production cities stagnate and just produce things the rest of the game.