Hey i have a question about Cossacks

[Furry Spatula]

Ok cossacks are the Russian UU, now i have a question about cossacks. Isn't it true that cossacks aren't russian? I thought that they were the royal gaurd or something for the Czars I thought the reason that cossacks were used is so the Czars wouldn't have to use russians to kill russians, as a russian may have problems killing someone of the same ethnicity. But of course i may be completly wrong on this so dont quote me please. I just sort of remember some of this from my history classes a while ago and i want to be set straight on this.

Oh yea it all depends on your definition of a Russian aswell.

 

[Dervish]

I think this is my personal opinion derived from whatever we were told in school and outside of it. Russians bought, purchaced or enticed away elite mounted troopers from Turkic speaking nomads who were wandering about without their own statehood, because their own statehood, be it Kazan Tatar Principality or Polovetz Principality were all smashed and destroyed by succesive Russian attacks on them. They are not Russians ehtnically, but they speak Russian with lots of words, which sound like Turkic words, the way they are traditionally clad is not Russian either, they look more like Chechens and North Caucasians, their adversaries. It all started when Russian "terrorists" successively destroyed Mongol Empire and other Turkic speaking big and small principalities existing around Moskva, the good troopers and skilfull soldiers were always wanted by any side. Moskva was a Mongol Principality itself subject to Khans of Orda, but with leadership consisting of ethnic Russians, of course......That's it for now.....

Now I am waiting to be smashed by angry Russians.

 

[Dervish]

The Russians themselves come from Viking tribe called Russ, so, they are closely related to Scandinavian Germanic tribes, who were masters of the Rivers and Lakes with their Long and Shortboats. In fact, that is how they actually got into hinterlands of Kiev Russian Kingdom, actually, the Russians at that time were not even that united to be called a Kingdom, they were all fighting each other. One Russian principality against other, yet being close relatives, and still resisting each other's united rule they fell easy victim to Vikings, who taught them how to stay united, ever since then the Russians were very united, with periods of disunity springing up and down.
But if you look into Russian genes and blood they are very heavily mixed with Mongols, Turkic, Finnic and Ugric tribes. I hope I managed not to offend any of these tribes.

 

[SKILORD]

"oh... WHAAAAA!!!! MOMMY MOMMY SID MYERS LIED TO ME!!! HE HE HE LIED TO ME!!!!! GIVE HIM A SPANKING BECAUSE COSSACKS AREN"T TECHNICALLY "Russian" WHA! WHA! (much weeping)" so what if they aren't technically "Russian" technically I DON'T GIVE A $%&* you expect too much reality from the game.... next thing you know you'll sue Fireaxis because on day you woke up and realized "GASP!" YOU AREN'T Czarina Catherine the Great, Chancellor Bismark etc.

 

[Quafel Asmar]

Was the flame necessary?

I like to think about what the historical significance and placement of the civs in the game were. It adds to my enjoyment. I think this question really leads into the question of whether or nor the vikings or mongols should have been included.

As for me thinking about what happend historically and seeing something else happen in the game adds to my enjoyment. To me the game isn't a historically simulation so much as a "what if" simulation.

 

[SKILORD]

ur right i might have gone a bit overboard..... sorry. I still stand by the sue fireaxis/not catherin statement tho

 

[kcstoli]

Originally posted by Furry Spatula
Ok cossacks are the Russian UU, now i have a question about cossacks. Isn't it true that cossacks aren't russian? I thought that they were the royal gaurd or something for the Czars I thought the reason that cossacks were used is so the Czars wouldn't have to use russians to kill russians, as a russian may have problems killing someone of the same ethnicity. But of course i may be completly wrong on this so dont quote me please. I just sort of remember some of this from my history classes a while ago and i want to be set straight on this.

Oh yea it all depends on your definition of a Russian aswell.

Cossacks were (and are) ethnically russians and not a bunch of asian nomads, hired by Russian empire There's been a big cultural difference, though. First, they've had many personal freedoms undreamable for regular russian peasants and also there's been a huge cultural and demographical influence of their enemies - muslim (Turkey), caucasian tribes, etc. But cossacks still are much closer to Russia than for example latin americans to Spain or anglo-saxon americans to Britain, though they've been initially pretty much same kind of people - metropoly colonists enjoying benefits for settling on the new lands, run-away's and criminals looking for personal freedoms at the edge of civilized world (to give you an idea - one of old cossack mascots is a cossack sitting on top of the wine barrel in his underwear, but with a rifle and a sabre meaning he sold all his clothes to buy wine, but kept his arms )
Lately, as those regions become a regular parts of the empire, cossacks really become a kind of royal guard, and I would pretty much agree with your thoughts on that.

 

[Furry Spatula]

SKil i wasn't realy worrying about if they were ethnicaly russians or not in terms of if Civ3 is accurate or not, but rather just for my own knowledge. BUt i can see how the mistake could have been made

 

[TrailblazingScot]

The Cossacks played a major part in the Russian military...it is for this reason they are the Russian UU. The Russian civ better think itself lucky it hasn't got a plane as her UU!

 

[Troyens]

The Russians had large cavalry forces of many types due to their huge land area - most were not specifically "cossacks". The Russian Civil War in the 1920's was filled with cavalry armies.

"Cossacks" is just a cute name for all Russian cavalry. It doesn't bother me. There are about a hundred things regarding Civ III that do bother me, but not that!



Historical footnote: The Russians are not ethnically Vikings, as someone above implied, although the name comes from them. Many Vikings settled in Eastern Europe and had a fairly large effect on civilizations, so including a Viking civ would not have been wrong. BTW, one of the most murderous cavalry forces ever was that of Tamerlane whose Turkic hordes slaughtered much of northern India six hundred years ago.

 

[SKILORD]

changed my mind i won't post here

 

[Dervish]

Yes, that is true. We are very cruel - OUCH! OUCH! yummie, yummie!

Cossacks I think are same as Turkish Yanissaries who were Greek, Slavic kids and children taken away from their parents to be brought up as Elite Turkish soldiers, in other words Greeks, Slavs were Turkified by the Ottomans in the same way as Turks were Russified by Tsars of Great Russia. I see it as a natural way of things happening.

BTW: Same goes with Vikings, or vice versa.