Sashie VII
Balance of Power
yavoon said:
I'm not Deity yet, but that's something I understand! Brew war, get everyone fighting yeahoo
Hi, new to civ III with questions
- Thread starter yavoon
- Start date
I'm not Deity yet, but that's something I understand! Brew war, get everyone fighting yeahoo
gunkulator
Emperor
yavoon said:
Does that work? I thought the AI had to attack you in your territory to trigger the MPP. If you attack first, you would trigger any MPP that the attacked civ might have had.
Sashie VII
Balance of Power
Double post
Sashie VII
Balance of Power
Hm? In C3C sometimes my MPP isn't triggered when someone attacks me 
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
An MPP is triggered when units of a Civ you are at war with end their turn or even attack you in your territory. Neutral or enemy territory does not count.
Rurik
Warlord
I'm probably the last person to say anything but do have a couple of questions about what "yavoon" experienced that have answers to help us both.
I used to screw-up Monarch level by building (ie. university) where it didn't do any good (ie. 95% commerce corrupt city). I would be paying upkeep for something that didn't justify it's upkeep cost. It sounds like YAVOON might have done this.
But there is the question of what to do with the 1-2 shields per turn that city generates. I still think I don't have the "best" answer for that. Usually I build a worker which is added to another city, works on terrain, or is sold. YAVOON asked what should be done with that 1-2 shields? Well? Inquiring minds want to know!
The other thing I think YAVOON mentioned is the 50+ workers he had for 30 cities during REPUBLIC. It makes me wonder how many total units he had and how much was spent on city improvement maintenance. It sounds like a lot, maybe. I wonder what his research level was compared to income compared to his 30% luxury slider. Maybe within these questions lies the answer to his apparent tech obsolesence compared to AI civs.
If he had maxed sci. research with fewer potentially "useless" city improvements (less maintenance) and fewer workers (maybe a 1-1.25 worker : city ratio) might this have aided his tech research (given what is conventional wisdom about techs being faster to research when one knows several civs already with the tech.)?
I, too, empathize with not being able to keep units upgraded with the most recent tech because of a fast tech advance situation. Generally I respond to it by building new units of the most recent tech before calling in existing units that are currently in defensive positions.
Excess workers can be used to prevent coastal landings by rivals (until marines) so both military units and workers can share the burdens of defensive strategies...to a point. Then, when RR is discovered, the workers can work on RR.
[EDIT: Never mind...didn't realize this thread went on...and on.]
I used to screw-up Monarch level by building (ie. university) where it didn't do any good (ie. 95% commerce corrupt city). I would be paying upkeep for something that didn't justify it's upkeep cost. It sounds like YAVOON might have done this.
But there is the question of what to do with the 1-2 shields per turn that city generates. I still think I don't have the "best" answer for that. Usually I build a worker which is added to another city, works on terrain, or is sold. YAVOON asked what should be done with that 1-2 shields? Well? Inquiring minds want to know!
The other thing I think YAVOON mentioned is the 50+ workers he had for 30 cities during REPUBLIC. It makes me wonder how many total units he had and how much was spent on city improvement maintenance. It sounds like a lot, maybe. I wonder what his research level was compared to income compared to his 30% luxury slider. Maybe within these questions lies the answer to his apparent tech obsolesence compared to AI civs.
If he had maxed sci. research with fewer potentially "useless" city improvements (less maintenance) and fewer workers (maybe a 1-1.25 worker : city ratio) might this have aided his tech research (given what is conventional wisdom about techs being faster to research when one knows several civs already with the tech.)?
I, too, empathize with not being able to keep units upgraded with the most recent tech because of a fast tech advance situation. Generally I respond to it by building new units of the most recent tech before calling in existing units that are currently in defensive positions.
Excess workers can be used to prevent coastal landings by rivals (until marines) so both military units and workers can share the burdens of defensive strategies...to a point. Then, when RR is discovered, the workers can work on RR.
[EDIT: Never mind...didn't realize this thread went on...and on.]
WackenOpenAir
Deity
But there is the question of what to do with the 1-2 shields per turn that city generates. I still think I don't have the "best" answer for that. Usually I build a worker which is added to another city, works on terrain, or is sold. YAVOON asked what should be done with that 1-2 shields? Well? Inquiring minds want to know!
-Build workers like you do. Don't sell them. Just use them or join them in other cities.
-Build settlers to produce more of those crappy corrupt cities
-Set them to wealth if you can't use more workers or settlers.
I, too, empathize with not being able to keep units upgraded with the most recent tech because of a fast tech advance situation. Generally I respond to it by building new units of the most recent tech before calling in existing units that are currently in defensive positions.
-Upgrading units is a very important part of the strategy to win at high levels. All units need to be the best and newest units available or you are wasting upkeep on units not worthy.
-Build workers like you do. Don't sell them. Just use them or join them in other cities.
-Build settlers to produce more of those crappy corrupt cities
-Set them to wealth if you can't use more workers or settlers.
I, too, empathize with not being able to keep units upgraded with the most recent tech because of a fast tech advance situation. Generally I respond to it by building new units of the most recent tech before calling in existing units that are currently in defensive positions.
-Upgrading units is a very important part of the strategy to win at high levels. All units need to be the best and newest units available or you are wasting upkeep on units not worthy.
so this is my basic opening on deity now:
setup a settler factory w/ either first or second city(or I guess both but that hasn't happened yet). that should make settlers every 4-8 turns.
I then try to grab good locations pretty quickly with my new cities, especially luxuries and flood plains. and if they're not in my core I just set them up to make workers.
in my core I build barracks' pretty quickly(as they all pretty much take 20 turns to get to size 3 and will produce way too many shields for worker or settler production alone.
continue to build workers in the outter cities and build settlers/warriors in the core.
thats pretty much it, eventually rcp 3 and 6 all have barracks. when I want to attack someone I hookup the iron and start massive sword upgrades, gather all my swords at the persons border. after I declare war I switch all production to horses and continue to basically produce horses/settlers/workers until he's dead.
and I generally use iroquois or america.
is this reasonably good?
setup a settler factory w/ either first or second city(or I guess both but that hasn't happened yet). that should make settlers every 4-8 turns.
I then try to grab good locations pretty quickly with my new cities, especially luxuries and flood plains. and if they're not in my core I just set them up to make workers.
in my core I build barracks' pretty quickly(as they all pretty much take 20 turns to get to size 3 and will produce way too many shields for worker or settler production alone.
continue to build workers in the outter cities and build settlers/warriors in the core.
thats pretty much it, eventually rcp 3 and 6 all have barracks. when I want to attack someone I hookup the iron and start massive sword upgrades, gather all my swords at the persons border. after I declare war I switch all production to horses and continue to basically produce horses/settlers/workers until he's dead.
and I generally use iroquois or america.
is this reasonably good?
Rurik
Warlord
From what MAS and WACKEN have been telling me, I would guess they would suggest you not build too many warriors but build chariots instead. Then upgrade what few warriors you have to swordsmen and upgrade chariots to horsemen. In just a week I've gone from a spearmen/pikemen-swordsmen invasion force to a horsemen (and a *few*...very few...swordsmen) invasion force. For me, though, it's using the horsemen effeciently and smartly that makes them so useful.
I'm sure MAS or WACKEN will let us know if I'm getting this right.
Edit: Given that you use Iroquois I'm surprised you don't say you build solely horse-driven armies since their UU is on horseback...have your GA w/ your first war.
I'm sure MAS or WACKEN will let us know if I'm getting this right.
Edit: Given that you use Iroquois I'm surprised you don't say you build solely horse-driven armies since their UU is on horseback...have your GA w/ your first war.
MAS
Deity
Rurik said:
The golden age means very little compared to the advantage of the mounted warrior itself 3.1.2. An attack of 3! The same as the swordsman!
With other civs you may want to make some swordsman, to take down a city on a hill or something, but with the Iroquois there is no need to build swordman at all.
(well, maybe if you lack horses.)
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Iroquois or America.
Iroquois is the most powerfull tribe in the game with both the best UU and the best traits.
America has effectively no UU and i don't really know about their traits, they are not agricultural, that is enough to know for me America is pretty weak.
(Did i mention the agricultural trait is about as powerfull as all other traits combined?)
It is nice with the iroquois to succeed in an early republic slingshot. This can allow you to swich to republic before your first attack so that you will have a republic golden age.
Swiching republic pre 1000BC, having 20 mounted warriors and starting your first war as well as activating your GA as soon as you get out of anarchy is as close to a perfect game as you can get imo.
Iroquois is the most powerfull tribe in the game with both the best UU and the best traits.
America has effectively no UU and i don't really know about their traits, they are not agricultural, that is enough to know for me
America is pretty weak. (Did i mention the agricultural trait is about as powerfull as all other traits combined?
)It is nice with the iroquois to succeed in an early republic slingshot. This can allow you to swich to republic before your first attack so that you will have a republic golden age.
Swiching republic pre 1000BC, having 20 mounted warriors and starting your first war as well as activating your GA as soon as you get out of anarchy is as close to a perfect game as you can get imo.
Rurik said:
well I can't make horses from the beginning, I usually get my techs pretty late either by buying or buy one big trade around. and also Im not iroquois all the time but yah when iroquois that mounted warrior is amazing.
also on chariots there's not too often I can make chariots, especially if I get a monopoly tech then I usually get wheel and horseback concurrently. though certainly that chariot idea would be nice, I do like upgrading which is why I make warriors to up to swordsmen because I can just wait to connect the iron.
WackenOpenAir said:Iroquois or America.
Iroquois is the most powerfull tribe in the game with both the best UU and the best traits.
America has effectively no UU and i don't really know about their traits, they are not agricultural, that is enough to know for me
(Did i mention the agricultural trait is about as powerfull as all other traits combined?
well I have vanilla so no agriculture.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
You don't like upgrading, maybe you should learn to like it. It is a very powerfull strategy. It is one of the key tactics to succes. Many succesfull players rarely handbuild a knight, they just disconnect iron to build horses and reconnect to upgrade those horses. You will need a larger number of horses though because many will retreat wounded.
I am one of those players.
Upgrading units is the best way to spend gold in my book. CERTAINLY in vanilla where you pay only 2gold per shields.
I think many people don't really see what gold can really do. researching an early Middle age tech costs about 1200 beakers. If instead you use that on upgrading units, you can upgrade units worth 600 shields. 600 shields worth of units can do a lot of things for you, they may even be able to hurt your opponent so bad that they will give you that 1200 beaker tech in exchange for peace. And that is not mentioning the wonders, population, territory and luxuries you just conquered.
It doesn't matter a whole lot in what losses you will suffer wether you attack the pikes with horses or with swords.
The best thing with pikes is to choose another opponent who does not yet have pikes and let the pikes wait until you have knights.
I am one of those players.
Upgrading units is the best way to spend gold in my book. CERTAINLY in vanilla where you pay only 2gold per shields.
I think many people don't really see what gold can really do. researching an early Middle age tech costs about 1200 beakers. If instead you use that on upgrading units, you can upgrade units worth 600 shields. 600 shields worth of units can do a lot of things for you, they may even be able to hurt your opponent so bad that they will give you that 1200 beaker tech in exchange for peace. And that is not mentioning the wonders, population, territory and luxuries you just conquered.
It doesn't matter a whole lot in what losses you will suffer wether you attack the pikes with horses or with swords.
The best thing with pikes is to choose another opponent who does not yet have pikes and let the pikes wait until you have knights.
so I played like 7 deity games so far and have lost 4, I won the one w/ iroquois and I'll probably win one more that I haven't finished. one loss was with rome and I wasn't as good.
so that leaves 4 more losses all of which come to the computer attacking me early. one time I was attacked before my second city, another time I was attacked while I had some units but two separate ppl attacked me. and one time i was attacked by like a dozen warriors/archers against like 4 warriors. and I think the last time I was attacked w/ jaguar warriors(so annoying).
I seem to be getting attacked a lot early, and since I dont really revert my saves(well save some culture flips, but I've pretty much stopped that) I find it kind of annoying. besides changing the settings I was wondering if like giving gpt for techs or something would stop them from attacking me?
so that leaves 4 more losses all of which come to the computer attacking me early. one time I was attacked before my second city, another time I was attacked while I had some units but two separate ppl attacked me. and one time i was attacked by like a dozen warriors/archers against like 4 warriors. and I think the last time I was attacked w/ jaguar warriors(so annoying).
I seem to be getting attacked a lot early, and since I dont really revert my saves(well save some culture flips, but I've pretty much stopped that) I find it kind of annoying. besides changing the settings I was wondering if like giving gpt for techs or something would stop them from attacking me?
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Dunno, next time you are attacked, post the save files from the moment the AI attacks you and some recent ones just before the attack
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