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High Score - 15M+ : Pre-game Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by WastinTime, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

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    I've been trying to make some final decisions. Like Arid vs Temperate. I thought maybe Arid would have less Ice and more accessible ice-islands, but there's no difference. 99% are accessible either way.
    Then I have to lock in all my opponents. And, of course, leader.
    I'm pretty sure I'm going to try to make Arid work for the score boost, but lack of forests is going to be painful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  2. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    I don't see a way around HC either. Keep in mind that on Arid you'll reach Sushi several turns later than on Temperate so it's a tough call. And Arid will have less farmable land, more floodplains, but also a lot more desert (not a huge factor). And you can't just not settle the desert because Sushi culture will grab all the land anyway.
     
  3. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

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    I'm not sure you can say that. Temperate may have more forests, but the question is : Might Arid have enough forests?
    And, more importantly, what if Arid has a hidden advantage? If it did, it would probably be all those Floodplains. Don't forget, food is king. It's quite possible that there could be fewer food-poor cities on the way to sushi. 3 flood plains, that's +8 food. So now you could have 9 out of 10 good, whippable, failgold cities and have GPfarms just about anywhere you want. With temperate, you rely on corn, pigs, wheat.

    Sushi does annoyingly grab too much land, but one way or another, I have to avoid ~700+ tiles on the mainland. I hope a lot of that is plains and desert, but it will hard to avoid losing floodplains along with that. Still, I think the average food/tile will be lower than temperate. Example: grass + plains = 7 food. Floodplain+desert = 5 food.
     
  4. Mitchum

    Mitchum Chieftain

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    A city in the desert with Sushi adds to score, right? Those could be plopped down later in the game once Sushi is founded...

    EDIT: x-post with WT.
     
  5. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

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    Yea and one interesting thing you can do is not settle on the rivers like normal (destroying the floodplains) That makes a 5 food tile become 2 food.
    Settling on desert tiles makes a 0 food tile become 2 food. Along with Ice tiles you can add 100's of food to a map.

    And IIRC, BUFFY 005 will restore floodplains when you raze the city there. That's new.
     
  6. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

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    :eek: OMG, I just had a mind-blowing idea!

    :devil: What if I settle and instantly raze cities on desert tiles!!!??? Will they become plains permanently? farm them and it's 3 food instead of 0. Anyone want to test it?
    It just means I need to build like 200 extra settlers. Drop in the bucket.
     
    sampsa likes this.
  7. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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  8. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    There is no "enough". In any case, virtually every forest has to be converted into failgold/units before Sushi (as it's your critical milestone). As chopping is by far the most efficient use of worker turns (except for some res improvements), having forests left would be unefficient (unless you lack the worker turns to chop everything, which I doubt). Thus, more forests = faster Sushi.

    Floodplains are good, but they're only +1 food compared to grassland. And in the areas with lots of floodplains you don't usually have many 5+ food tiles because everything's plains/desert. So I don't think having a few more floodplains will have any significant impact on Sushi date.
     
  9. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

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    Your assumptions are getting you in trouble. There's no way I can chop every forest before sushi. And even if I could, forests are not as important as whip overflow when it comes to failgold. Forests often end up in wonders that I have to complete, especially those that need to be done in 1 turn (Kremlin), or quickly (MoM, Paya, GreatLH, Taj-sorta).
    So, if there are 'enough' forests for a couple quick early quechua, then at least 1 per granary, and those critical wonders, etc, I should be able to fuel wonderbread with food. It's not called wonderforest or wonderwood although that has a nice ring to it.
    Arid's floodplains *might* be as good or better than the extra wood. I plan to be much more systematic about lining up the whip overflows, more aggressively doing it and erasing whip anger. In the past, I've only bothered to erase anger a handful of times.
     
  10. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Tested and no. They don't actually become plains - if you hover over the tile it still shows desert, although the yield is adjusted for the city. If you then raze them the city bonus is lost and they are just plain desert tiles.
     
  11. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    Right. If worker turns are the bottleneck then fewer forests is not a big deal, unless it's really a lot of forests. I usually play on Normal speed, where the gold you can gain from whip overflows is divided by 3, while forest chops are as good as on Marathon, which partly explains my wrong assumptions. Wonderwood sounds good tho. Don't you lose 1 pop when you erase whip anger (except if the city is at size 1 ofc)?
     
  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

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    I expected that but I can always hope. Thx for testing.
    I understand the change in 005 is that floodplains get restored. And that's new, right? I guess it's because they are a 'feature' of a desert tile.
     
  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

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    Nope, not as long as you have 1:culture: (and no one else has any). Also, no buildings get destroyed, so your granary is safe.
    Oh, and the city does not go into revolt :thumbsup:
     
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  14. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Yes that's new, it always frustrated me that razing a city turned a flood plain into a worthless desert but I'm not totally convinced it's a bug that needed to be fixed but there it is.
     
  15. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Chieftain

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    Isn't that floodplain restoration a feature of the vanilla game? I play with BUG+BULL and I swear I've raised AI cities to restore floodplains before.
     
  16. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    It's a feature of BUG so yes you will have! Buffy 005 brings up to the latest stable versions of BUG and BULL.
     
  17. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    I don't think a FP should be restored after razing a city. FPs are a terrain feature just like forests, and they get destroyed when settling all the same. Restoring the FP of the city center tile is illogical imo.
     
  18. SittinDown

    SittinDown Chieftain

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    In real life, I see a flood plain as a geographic feature. Putting a city in the flood plain wouldn't make it stop flooding. But cutting all the trees down does make it 'not a forest'. It makes sense to me from a 'model the real world' sense.
     
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