Higher difficulties, quick question.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Matthew., Sep 15, 2011.

  1. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

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    At higher difficulties is it necessary to abuse RA's/GS's?

    The scenario: Standard map, standard speed. Difficulty 6 or 7. I start out at a good pace, the civs near by fall before me. Yet the mystery civ on the other side of the map (continent) is racking up the points score. 1400's approach, and I make a push toward this top civ. When I reach his empire, what do I see? The entire thing is covered in artillery guns and rifle/infantry. 1400 AD.

    The above is a common scenario; there always seems to be a civ or two that gets a good map spawn, covers a large area of the map, and blazes through the tech tree. It is difficult to wage war across oceans as is, but pointless if it is knights up against artillery and above.

    So what is the answer? More focus on targeting top civs early? Or do I need to succumb to RA/GS abuse?
     
  2. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Take a break from fighting, build universities in your core cities, then push to artillery before the final battle.

    Alternately, blitz through your enemies before 1000 AD.
     
  3. fmlizard2

    fmlizard2 Prince

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    You really ought to not have Knights and such at that point. Mech Infantry (or tanks) and Artillery are very doable by 1400 AD - without RA abuse. 1200 AD is a nice target date for Modern level army techs if you use saved GSes and Sci Rev to clear the last few Industrial techs. Especially if you have swallowed up neighbors like you say.

    I would say you are probably not optimizing your core science, not using specialists, or have too low of populations.
     
  4. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

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    I suppose this answers my question. I am well aware of how one can blast through the tech tree. The best example I have is an island map where I reached future tech off of ~200 base science for most of the game at around 1800's. This was off one main base, and two smaller ones located near resources.

    It is disappointing that the idea of "difficulty" in Civ 5 seems to be exploiting the tech race. Ah well, it was a fun game for a while. Thanks for the reply.
     
  5. TPQ

    TPQ Cogito Ergo Civ

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    I wouldn't say you need to abuse RA, just make sure you get a few when you can afford them and make sure your core cities are paying attention to research as well as their other tasks.

    It is worthwhile keeping an eye on the top scoring civs as the game progresses and also worthwhile checking out who has what wonders as score leader's scores can be inflated by building lots of wonders, which doesn't really make them a real military threat.

    Often I find that score doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes down to war, but if you've got to cross an ocean to meet up with a swarm of artillery, well, only battleships and bombers are really going to help you out in that situation, so, probably best to take a stab at the opposition before they get that far.

    Just sounds like you need to focus on science a bit more to me. I can just about keep up with the AI on Immortal with only a handful of RAs, so more of them is probably in order there for you, and me. On Emperor I don't find I need any RAs all game to keep up comfortably with the AIs using just population and science buildings, so maybe some fine tuning of how you tackle science on Emperor, or a few more RAs would help keep you ahead of the curve.
     
  6. wcbarney

    wcbarney Know-it-all

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    I play pretty much exclusively at the immortal level, after finding that emperor wasn't challenging enough any more. I agree 100% percent with those who have posted that science is the most important focus -- no matter what kind of victory you ultimately try to achieve. You've got to be equal or ahead on tech to initiate a diplo victory, or win a science victory, or a domination victory. Being ahead on tech also lets you get the right techs first to build the wonders that you need for a cultural victory -- Stonehenge, The Oracle, Cristo Redentor, Sydney Opera ...
     
  7. qemist

    qemist Prince

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    What is RA abuse? What is GS abuse?
     
  8. Karpyan

    Karpyan Chieftain

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    e.g. spamming Research Agreements at every opportunity; or saving up 6+ Great Scientists by using all the GS slots in Univ/Public Schools and bulbing them through to the highest techs. I don't see it as abuse as such, more a good practice that's necessary to get anywhere at the higher levels. If you're 'dominating' I think the science comes by itself to an extent.
     
  9. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

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    I suppose that is technically my complaint. Instead of having a competent AI that can play the game, they are given massive bonuses and the only way for a player to compete is to "game" the system. True, science is the most important stat, but GS/RA abuse is even trumping that. Combat, movement, city placement, management, none of it matters. As long as you know how to slingshot your tech up a few steps, you automatically win.

    On a more positive note, I have a tried a few games since I created this thread with the goal of using diplomacy to take down those run-away-civs. Any time a civ gets too far ahead, I manipulate the others to gang up (which is easy, considering they seem to be programmed to get angry towards the top civ) and go after that civ myself.

    Edit:

    I generally don't have a problem keeping up except for that one or two civs that, for whatever reason, skyrocket. My guess is the main issue is not science (although civs, such as ghandi/Wu, signing as many RA's as possible-in combination with their gold bonuses-does lead to a tech boost) The problem is happiness. I vaguely recall reading something that states happiness is more or less not even a factor at higher levels. So while I am limited in how high my population gets, the runaway civ on the other continent is literally covering the map with 18+ pop cities.
     
  10. qemist

    qemist Prince

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    I don't think it is abuse either. I think RAs and GSs are OP, but that is the developer's fault, not the player's. Allowing only one GS to be alive at a time would prevent their "abuse", and various methods of nerfing RAs have been discussed in another thread.
     

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