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Himeji Castle overpowered?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by MasterMishi, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. MasterMishi

    MasterMishi Warlord

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    OCC multiplayer game: My invading 80k Japanese army of rifles with 2 cannons was ruined by Eygpt's 45k 2 knights 2 rifles a warrior a spear (approx) thanks to Himeji castle and oligarchy.
    Mousing over one potential attack I was shocked to see my slightly injured rifle would be reduced to less than half health when attacking and killing an unfortifyed warrior on a hill. Ouch. "I had a dream of our future and it was glorious...glorious!"

    So my strategy tip is get Himeji and oligarchy, wonder whore with megre defense and achieve a glorious score victory.:goodjob:
     
  2. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Bring more siege.
     
  3. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

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    No isn't overpowered.

    But again, I go nuts and try to get himeji every single time soo. <,<
     
  4. Civsassin

    Civsassin Immortal

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    When you choose the defensive builds and policies, you are giving up the opportunity for something else (in business, it is called an opportunity cost). If another player is committed to a domination victory, those things certainly make it more difficult, but if they are going for another type of victory, the time and culture you've spent on defense will make it more difficult for you to compete with them if they've prioritized their builds and policies to their goals.

    Try combining Himeji, The Great Wall, and The Kremlin combined with other defensive policies, and you are definitely ready for any defensive fight.
     
  5. biohazard72

    biohazard72 Prince

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    If you anticipate your kill rate is better than the AI replacement rate for units, using Himeji Castle and Oligarchy and fighting the war in your own territory is a smart play. Then push for cities when the AI is running out of units.

    If you underestimate the opponent though, you might end up in a stalemate where they continue to produce units at a rate exceeding the rate you kill them. While you get lots of promotions, you still might lose to sheer numbers. This happened to me on Deity against a huge Japanese empire.
     
  6. Froggy77

    Froggy77 Chieftain

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    I am a noob. However if you opponent is shelling up I suggest using your units to surround his lands as best you can instead. His units will be significantly weaker than a warmonger outside his lands and this will prevent him from expanding. Then I would switch as best I could from unit production to tech. Work my way to nukes. I haven't had an opportunity to try this before, but the strategy sounds good.
     
  7. swordspider

    swordspider Dread Multiplayer

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    Couple simple things to 'even' the odds. First, a Great General will eliminate their Oligarchy bonus outright (20% vs 20%), unless of course they have a general too. Second, their bonus from Himeji is only good in their borders, so you just need to come with a bigger army and a lot of it being archers and siege. You can also nearly eliminate the Himeji bonus by taking advantage of flanking your units. In addition, if you can pop out the +15% for adjacent units bonus under honor tree, that will potentially even give YOU the edge.
     
  8. Rittmeyer

    Rittmeyer Prince

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    olygarchy gives you 33% bonus, not 20%, iirc.
     
  9. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    Yeah, I'd estimate you usually need about 2 kills per turn to achieve stalemate. This usually means 4 siege weapons (or 2 double shooting siege weapons)
     
  10. HideInLight

    HideInLight Warlord

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    Just get 10 Keshiks with logistics promotion and dont worry about any modifiers, you will always kill at least two units, be in Giant Death Robots or anything :)
     
  11. Deussu

    Deussu The Omniscient

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    DLC civs are unavailable in multiplayer games. Otherwise good.

    I don't find Himeji OP at all. Building it and getting Oligarchy is just a very good tactic in OCC games. Add Universal Suffrage and you are well set.

    In order to properly capture a city in OCC you need to bring in a lot of support. And preferably rush to Artillery for :c5rangedstrength: long-ranged death. England's longbowmen would be awesome as well.
     
  12. hellboy909

    hellboy909 Chieftain

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    If it's the AI you're playing against, just declare war, sit back and let him come fight in YOUR territory. Then march on his cities once all his units are gone.
     
  13. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    Never mind defense - it's OP when combined with Oligarchy as an offensive weapon. Apart from optimizing the standard strategy of letting the AI die coming to you before you move on him, it immediately turns any city you take into strongly defended friendly territory. The resultant failed counterattack keeps the AI undermanned, making the next city capture all the easier.
     
  14. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    Neither Oligarchy nor Himeji is overpowered as such, the combination is very good, however. If you nerf both to 20% they'd still be good (I mean, it's an equivalent bonus to a great general everywhere in your own or allied territory) but not quite as powerful. However, the AI almost always goes for Oligarchy so this might weaken their defensive capabilities.
     
  15. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

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    I tried invading Japan when they had the Great Wall and Himeji Castle :(
     
  16. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    I'd say it isn't Oligarchy thats OP, but the AI thats UP...
     
  17. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    I hope you brought cannons.
     
  18. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

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    No, just Cats :(
     
  19. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    If the AI didn't come to you, I think you'd think differently. A 58% bonus for each combat is huge. Even just the 33% from oligarchy need some very superior forces to overcome seeing that the defender also has visibility and movement advantages.
     

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