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Hippus Neighbors: Ruining your game since 2005

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by SwampCow, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. SwampCow

    SwampCow Warlord

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    /Beginrant

    How many of you immediately know your game is borked when you see one of your early neighbors is the Hippus? Sometimes, if I wasn't dealt a sweet hand in regards to local resources and unique features, I simply quit and start a whole new game now. Experience has taught me it is usually a losing battle anyways.

    With them next door, you know they will attack you early, regardless of your relationship, or which leader they have. God forbid it is Tasunke so you see horses armed with commando and combat I out of the gate, they simply fly around your roads and wipe out all your workers and destroy your improvements.

    Then you have to deal with the fact they they build seemingly nothing but horses and axemen non stop, both early units for them since they go straight for them on the tech trees, ignoring all others. Nothing you have can counter his units early on unless you abandon everything you are doing and play the oh so fun "spit out an endless supply of warriors" until you have staved off a Hippus invasion. Since Formation I requires Combat II to unlock, you have to have enough of your warriors survive the overwhelming odds against them just so they can be more prepared for the horses. Amazing, but a warrior defending on a hillside city with a wall will still die to a Tasunke horse that has yet to fight a single battle. makes getting that warrior to level 3 awfully hard

    Even in success in fending them off, you ultimately ruin your game because you are miles behind the other civs in terms of cities development and tech.

    It is amazing that against any other opponent, you can keep them at bay while still managing to tech up and develop your cities. Hippus though are a different animal altogether. Raider/Aggressive is just an insane combo.

    /Endrant
     
  2. SwordofStriker

    SwordofStriker Prince

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    The Hippus are a nuisance at the best of times. When they are led my Tasunke I focus my efforts on getting them out of the game first and foremost if they are my neighbors. Waiting until later in the game always proves a bad idea.
     
  3. SwampCow

    SwampCow Warlord

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    Yeah i agree. Problem is getting the upper hand. Tasunke's base units are much stronger so it can be a major chore to make any headway in conquering him. If you play advanced start (something I have started to doing recently to get more out of each game) you see them with horses almost immediately. If you stop for a second to build anything other than warriors, you are boned.
     
  4. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    Tell me about it: Tasunke's horsemen are naturally potent against my puny archers and those horse-devils race through our forests faster than our own people. By the time we rouse a dozing treant, the horsemen have pillaged our cottages, eaten our lunch, and are halfway home.

    I think my Elven survival has depended on terrain and luck; give the horseboys an open grasslands and time to expand, they'll crush you. 'Course they're not great attacking a forest hidden, hill top, palisaded Ljosalfar city.
     
  5. Frostdrake

    Frostdrake Chieftain

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    I don't have any problems with tasunke as early neighbour. If I scout him, he'll be my first target. I'm usually an aggresssive player and would get my second city by conquering anyways. After an initial warrior rush they are out of the game. Lategame they are a problem, though, I rarely can prevent hoards of horsemen pilligang my land, but I can counter attack Hippus cities ;)

    Gotta admit that I like save/reload at around 50% odds :p
     
  6. Azhral

    Azhral Let's get Tactical!

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    Archers are actually fairly effective against horsemen. With the +1 base defensive strength, and bonuses from cities and hills, only being caught on flat terrain gives a horseman a decent chance at victory.
     
  7. SwampCow

    SwampCow Warlord

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    You can definitely stall them with archers and some teched up axemen but unfortunately the problem you can run into is the when they get the horses into play and when you get archers into play.

    Archery and the units themselves are surprisingly hammer/tech heavy. Unless you are making straight for that tech, he will always have horses out before you are armed with anything more than warriors or a few axemen. I know I am at a disadvantage because I like to get a to Festivals as fast as possible to get the revenue to support my city building as well as a few resource techs. It may be 6 techs before I go to archery and by then Hippus are on me. I just think it is funny how much more of a problem they can be than any other civ.

    makes me curios. if you played with the option to choose any leader, what combo is the most lethal. Add Tasunke's Aggressive/Raider trait to another civ with a a different primary unit and see how crazy it would be.
     
  8. iffi

    iffi Warlord

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    My guess why Hippus are one of the most effective AI civs is that with flanking and high movement their units can actually survive after battles, win or lose. So they get either a second chance or a promotion, which then leads to better odds and thus even more promotions. This in addition to their basic warmongering attitude (war-tech heavy AI).

    I haven't had the pleasure to meet them mid-to-late game after they lost War Chariots and the change to Chariots, so don't know how their game got changed.

    Usually, if they are my immediate neighbours I attack them very early. I use a Classical start almost always, which probably helps.

    If I learn around turn 100-200 that they are on the other side of the big continent, then I grunt a bitter sigh. They can get so damn huge after they steam-roll over other AI civs.
     
  9. Seon

    Seon Not An Evil Liar

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    I once placed Hippus in my game so that they can harass some other civs. They spawned next to my Empire but was promptly destroyed by the Elohim in the first 200 turns :p. I conaider myself lucky ;)
     
  10. schlalex

    schlalex Warlord

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    I have Tasunke in every game i play, because i love the challenge.
    The AI is still so stupid in FFH, so thats a wonderful exception!

    And there is one point in FFH, thats annoying me.Since the raider Trait is so powerful, it definetely should be allowed to destroy roads in your own territory. If war vs the hippus/any other raider-nation is inevitable, this can give u the opportunity to controll the way pillaging comando-units can enter your lands. Please change this!
     
  11. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

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    IF they spawn right next to me and IF I'm playing Deity and IF they choose me as a target instead of some other neighbor they have, then they can wreck a game fast - it will still be winnable, but really boring in the early stages. FfH picks up when magic, religion, and tier 3 options open up, and a long bloody war with the hippus really lengthens the amount of time before that happens, and fills it with repetitive unit spam and combat.

    Thankfully that combination of factors is pretty rare. If some AI uses his expansion bonuses to settle on top of the hippus before you do, guess who's getting attacked...
     
  12. Earthling

    Earthling Deity

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    I believe one of the things that makes Hippus so powerful for the AI is their free experience (6 to 8 at the highest levels, I think). This highly benefits any civ that builds lots of horses (which the AI favor, and which are naturally stronger for the AI since they move more than one at a time) due to the way they promote. Playing as the Hippus yourself you'll see you don't get free flanking 1-2 on your units.

    But I haven't had any major problems with Hippus, except in that dwarf scenario - suppose it would be nice in general if later on in the game there was a sort of "pikemen" unit to specifically counter horses but it's alright. Rushing with warriors/outteching them is always a good option; they don't seem to always attack either if you can get religion friendly or bribe them into war with others. I agree an option for road-pillage alone would be nice.
     
  13. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    Mentioning Hippus' fierceness doesn't mean I want them nerfed or that I fear them -anymore than any other civ. Of course, like any other civ, my Elven archers can take the usual measures from hilltops, cities, anti-mounted promotions (rarely used by me, it's too specific), and so on.

    So Hippus players, nothing personal. I hate intolerance of any civ - except the Balseraphs. No, I kid. Even at the Deity/Immortal level, I generally don't wince at their newly-built, highly promoted horsemen - if it were the Hippus it would be some else knock knock knockin' at Evermores' door.

    One thing I've noticed on three or four occasions, the Hippus are successful in knocking out some poor unfortunates and end up crippling their economy trying to run a continent-wide empire with Despotism and other basic civics. In such cases, I think I'm doing 'em a favor if I take their conquests off their hands.

    I think I'd play the Hippus more if they were more magical; or fantasy like. Here they seem too real world; with certain obvious exceptions.
     
  14. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    There are some civs that I hate to start next to, like the Balseraphs or the Calabim. If I start next to the Sheaim or the Hippus, however, there's no time for hate because they have to die immediately.
     
  15. Kenjister

    Kenjister Swimmer

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    They may be deadly, but if you change your research to Bronze you'll have units that stand a change against Tasuke. Usually they try a city attack before Pillaging, so after the first stack withdraws knock them out on the field. If you're against Rhoanna, you can just hit the stack on (fairly) equal terms since her units don't have the free Combat I promo.

    They may be extremely annoying, but aren't a serious threat unless you fail to adapt.
     
  16. Verdian

    Verdian King

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    I have no problem with the Hippus as neighbors, even when they kill me. It is nice to see an AI civ fighting effectively. While I am sure rushing them is effective, I tend to play a peaceful style. I usually try and spread my religion to them as quickly as possible to make them my friend. Asking them to fight various people that I do not like is great. I keep them happy and at war. I feel the Hippus work exactly as they should.
     
  17. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    I've tried making nice with them. Tasunke backstabbed me once even though I was +20 positive in relation with him. So now he's got to die.
     
  18. Verdian

    Verdian King

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    I could be wrong, and would love some code confermation, but it seems like the Hippus are very willing to accept gold to attack someone. I think this is what leads them to backstab so easily. Of course, I am basing this on the fact that I always pay them to attack other people...
     
  19. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    Hippus are one of the civs I always warrior rush early. I can neer afford to pay them to attack people.

    Tried being friends with them .It doesn't work. Even rhoanna will backstab you.
    Not trustworthy people at all.
     
  20. PekkaR

    PekkaR Chieftain

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    Well, you gotta deal with them and it can shape your game for hundreds of turns. Both good and bad.

    Hippus are effective, but I've only found myself hugely frustrated couple of times when they were churning out flanking 2-3 horsemen. That's Immortal/Deity level team game, solo I play Emperor usually. Based on playing them myself too, perhaps the extra movement point they get is a little too effective with Commando and all?

    In current game I started next to Charadon and his predictable early rush with twice my power (in the graph) was probably worse than a Hippus attack a little later would've been. Charadon even built up to Horsemen later during the war, making me watch out for pillagers. (No Commando of course.) He never gave me peace. Around turn 200 he became my vassal with 2 remaining cities.
     

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