Hitler should have used his German musketeers

[plomeros]

OK, It's whining, but I feel the need.
Shouldn't civ have some kind of automatic function, where you will be forced to upgrade or the unit will be lost? I am REALLY sick of having a large enemy civ, that is, according to my advisors, more tech advanced then me, invade with spearman against my marines.How stupid! Problem is that they are quite efficient. They spread out, raid my countryside, capture workers and generally embarres my generals.
I don't mind loosing, in fact, I like to loose against a superior enemy, using good tactics, but not in this silly way.

How can triremes in any way survive heavy bombers? I f the japs could sink the american ships in pearl Harbour, shouldn't 20 units of stealth bomber be able to sink the very same fleet that Ulysseus used?

I ended up having this city guarded by five units of pikemen. I thought it was kinda cool to have my own Swiss guard, and didn't upgrade them. 200 years later, the Aztecs invade, using a modern army. (Well, about as modern as the UN coalition in Korea during the 50's)
Two tank units and one rifleman unit attack my city, and LO! Not only does my brave guards fight to the last drop of blood, they somehow win!!! One of them becomes Elite, and I bravely field him to hunt down wounded troops. He kills two more units (wounded riflemen) and then produces a leader!OK, it's funny, but quite bizarre.

Someone please explain this to me!

 

[eyrei]

The best way to fix this would be to play on a higher level. I play on Monarch and Emperor, and I almost never see spearmen after the middle ages.

 

[plomeros]

Sorry, forgot my stats...
Emperor level
Huge real world map
16 civs
I am the Babs, started in North Africa, now, 1707, have most of Africa, the middle east, Ukraine, and colonies in Japan, Siberia, Madagaskar, New Guinea.
Democracy since 1300-something
Leading in culture, number 2 in tech.

I also thought of trying at Deity level, but I'm not really good enough for that yet...

 

[eyrei]

I dont' really think the AI is programmed to upgrade defensive units unless there are enemies within range of the city. I usually don't see them though, since they are usually garrisoned in cities in the middle of the empire. Sometimes I see them attempting to pillage like you saw. I refuse to stand for this, and use everything at my disposal to keep my terrain from being pillaged by a spearmen in the modern age. It is just embarrassing.

 

[Ironikinit]

I tend to have obsolete units running around if my civ has a lot of wars and grows a lot via conquest. It's not embarassing, it's just good sense. Well, maybe bad sense considering that I'm paying upkeep on my stupid unupgradable swordsmen, but they come in handy for surpressing resistance. And as has been pointed out, warriors pillage as well as ModArm.

I've had games where the AI has relatively few obsolete units. I posted a list, and people reckoned that it was because the AI was relatively prosperous due to prolonged peace.

Good work generating that leader. I'm not sure what you want explained. The rationale for outdated units not getting upgraded by the AI?

 

[CrazyScientist]

I find the AI does a decent job of upgrading its units, but I still see the occasional spearman running around in the modern era.
The Egyptians in particular seem to have a good deal of sentimental attachment to their war chariots and are reluctant to replace them.
My biggest beef is the units that never go obsolete. Why can't swordsmen and longbowmen upgrade to muskets or rifles? I don't know if its realistic or not but it definitely needs to be in there for the sake of game play. The list of producable stuff to choose from in cities gets insanely long by the late game. Even cities where you have all the improvments built, the list of units is huge because you can still build privateers, and swordsman in the age of tanks and AEGIS cruisers. Even if ,for whatever reason, you think they shouldn't be upgraded, at least take them of the build list. Who the hell builds swordsmen in the modern era?

 

[SKILORD]

maginot lines work rather well against this, even without the forts can you imagine the spearmen running up to a solid wall of infaltry? i must confess to having picked the habit up from the AI, i'll sometimes send swarms of swordsmen, you can't upgrade them at all, to annoy the AI. sometimes it works sometimes no, doesn't matter tho as the things are useless.

 

[Ironikinit]

DamnCommie (I wanna see if the language filter picks that up),

You can go in the editor and set the upgrade path for all the units, if I understand correctly.

 

[Umask077]

I solved the problem in my game. I poped open the editor and changed my .bic.

I doubled the combat values for non first era units.

(modern armors at 64 attack now).

IF you dont upgrade you die. Pretty simple. Yes Ive seen them throw a spearman at my modern armor and my armor dies but its much less frequently and it could in theory happen. Say the bones of one the spearmen I just drove over gets stuck in my treads and I detread. They swarm over the tank and beat it with there spears causing me to go mad with the noise created inside the tank. Eventually I go so mad that I shoot myself just to end the noise. Sure a spearman could take a tank occasionally but its not an every day thing.

It reall changes the balance. I dont upgrade my units anymore. I throw them on the front lines. Most arent worth disbanding for a the few shields you get so I use them as cannon fodder. I may have to throw 9 swordsman at an infantry but he eventually goes down and it didnt cost me a dime. (actually saved me a few in unit support).

By the modern era I usually can turn out 6 or so modern armors a turn. I spend most of my time doing this and then disbanding them catch any cities that are way to corrupt up. Guess this has nothing to do with upgrading but oh well..

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by plomeros
OK, It's whining, but I feel the need. . . . I am REALLY sick of having a large enemy civ, that is, according to my advisors, more tech advanced then me, invade with spearman against my marines.How stupid! Problem is that they are quite efficient. They spread out, raid my countryside, capture workers and generally embarres my generals.
. . .
Someone please explain this to me!

Let's see. The spearmen raid your countryside, capture your workers and embarrass your generals. They cut your roads, your strategic resources and cause you enough anxiety to make you whine and be sick. What was the part about the AI being "stupid?"

Beware the lowly spearman. Beware! Beware!
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/counterattack.htm

 

[Supercilious]

At Regent level, I have never encountered spearmen much past the start of the medieval period. Units seem to upgrade fairly well. Or maybe I missed something?

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Supercilious
At Regent level, I have never encountered spearmen much past the start of the medieval period. Units seem to upgrade fairly well. Or maybe I missed something?

No, you're not missing anything. The AI usually upgrades most of its units -- within its budget.

In the famous battle of Moscow as I smote the Russians, they unexpectedly upgraded from riflemen to infantry in the time it took to cross their lands. My riflemen were in position on a mountain beside the city, backed with plenty of cannon. The carnage was terrible, the huge metropolis reduced to rubble (20 cannon for 10 rounds). Many good men died capturing Moscow.

You almost never see a tank v. a spearman, and when you do, the tank wins nearly everytime. And even if the spearman is fortified on a mountain, it's nothing that artillery can't fix.

Well-positioned German musketeers (custom unique unit apparently) are a good defense against tanks for a reason. They can make explosives.

 

[Spunky Alven]

Why isn´t there a upgrade all button, i hate to sit and upgrade 75 riflemens one by one.

 

[plomeros]

Somehow my point got lost in this thread.
I do not complain that the AI is stupid when it comes to playing the game, I think the GAME is stupid.
If I wanted a tactical simulator, that ONLY focuses on building units, upgrading, gathering resources and kicking the s***t out of your opponents, then I wouldn't play Civ. I have always liked civ for getting the kick out of changing history, playing with real empires, real units. For me, that feeling is ruined when these anacronisms happen!

Good Idea to upgrade the modern units ALOT! I cannot see any swordsmen having ANY kind of effect in modern days.

In civ 2, the barracks sometimes became wothless because of tech advances in the military. Good idea! Couldn't there be a similar function in civ3 when you change period, asking you to upgrade or disband your units,

 

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
DamnCommie (I wanna see if the language filter picks that up),

You can go in the editor and set the upgrade path for all the units, if I understand correctly.

yes you do understand correctly, In my games I made the swordmen upgrade to marines but I never have built them too much as they were a deadend unit (couln't upgrade) but now I still don't build them much (As I value the fast units over other's) and I find it helped the AI in my games much more than me :crazyeyes

 

[Ironikinit]

Originally posted by Spunky Alven
Why isn´t there a upgrade all button, i hate to sit and upgrade 75 riflemens one by one.

Activate a single one of the unit you want to upgrade. Press shift+u. All units of that sort in barracks will upgrade.

Kefka, that's cool. I was thinking that if I changed the upgrades around, I'd make swordsmen go to musketman. I can always use more defenders, same with the AI.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by plomeros
For me, that feeling is ruined when these anacronisms happen!

Good Idea to upgrade the modern units ALOT! I cannot see any swordsmen having ANY kind of effect in modern days.

In civ 2, the barracks sometimes became wothless because of tech advances in the military. Good idea! Couldn't there be a similar function in civ3 when you change period, asking you to upgrade or disband your units,

Considering that spearmen were still winning battles into the late 19th century, they are not really so out of place.

If you can't imagine Impi's, then pretend they are crotchety old soldiers and farmers running around with pitchforks, torches, clubs and shovels ravaging your people and infrastructure. Just swat them with your modern combined arms and that will be the end of that.

If it was your home, and you were a young man I would hope you would fight back with whatever means you had available. If you didn't have modern arms, you would set traps, you would sneak around at night. Yes, you would probably die; maybe your chances would be only 1/100, but if 100 took the chance you could make the enemy pay for every bit of ground they took.

(PS. I'm not against the idea, just don't think the current situation makes the game unplayable or not fun. A common strategy to "upgrade" your units if you don't have the cash is to throw them into battle to distract the enemy, while you build more advanced units in the rear.)

 

[plomeros]

yep, spearmen did win some victories in the 1800's, against outnumbered anf poorly led infantry. I doubt though that Operation Desert storm would have failed if Saddam had ,made an infantry push with axe weilding beduins...

My point is that there should be a greater need to upgrade and modernize your army if you want to be a superpower. In one of my games I concuered the world (small map) using triremes to ship my marines off to war. That's ridicolus, isn't it?

Fair enough, a infantry unit can be defeated by tribal warriors, as on the Isandlwana plain, but the Zulus shouldn't be able to counterstrike and raid London, using rafts to reach Britain and sharp grass to tear down Buckingham palace.

 

[Zachriel]

Dunkirk.

 

[Zachriel]

Dunkirk. The use of non-military boats to effect a strategically significant maneuver.