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Ho ho ho and a bottle of Tokaj! - A Magyar civ

Discussion in 'Civ4 - New Civilizations' started by cool3a2, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    I agree on the towers. Should be even easy to avoid that they show up for Hungary. I'd just need to take a look at the nif to find out which building it is in the xml and then add a '!' in front of the MAGYAR_ARTSTYLE string... I am also thinking about keeping Freyas medieval cityset for the renaissance era and mixing it with the current set: for the main city square I keep the default renaissance cityset (without towers of course), but for smaller settlements (cottages...) I might keep Freyas building. Those settlements are divided into 4 or even 5 groups of different sizes, so I might Freyas buildings for the smallest two.
     
  2. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Sounds really good to me. If it looks nice, then we have a cool set for another era :)
    I was thinking, that it can be done for other eras too, right?
    Adding some of the previous era's building to the next era's cottages and hamlets...
     
  3. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    Sure. I still didn't try it (only successfully removed the towers so far), but I don't see any problem there.

    EDIT: Mixed the renaissance and medieval citysets for renaissance era successfully. It looks okay, only the medieval buildings are a bit tiny compared to the others, but it's okay I think. Hmmm... I could shrink the default renaissance buildings a bit, what do you think? For renaissance cities, they may be too much crowded anyways...

    EDIT2: Don't forgot to support our soccer team tonight: Hungary vs. Sweden, at half past 7 (RTL Klub).
     
  4. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Yeaah, goal :)
    Just a penalty, but still ;)
     
  5. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Ohhhhh, no waaaay. In the very last minute :(
    Btw, u play/played soccer too?
     
  6. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    Damn it, we lost in the last seconds, when the game was actually already over... Damn Ibrahimovic... I always hated him, because he is nothing more then an actor... The turanian curse strikes again. But Torghelle was right: we should have kept and played with the ball instead of giving a pass immidiately. This ways we would have engaged Sweden into tacklings which may have led to free kicks and thus kept the game on their half of the field... For wednesday our slogan should be: győzni vagy halni...

    Well, I played soccer when I was a child at school and in freetime. I think I wasn't too bad as kind of offensive defender. I also was member of a small club for a short time, but didn't felt well there. Never took part in a match, just went to training. Because of some health problems I don't play soccer anymore at all. There wouldn't be any place where to play and no mates to play with. Even more, the Fifa video game series really became rubish (seems like there is no chance to play a turnament with different teams in multiplayer mode...), so not even on pc I play soccer... So all I do is watching it on tv. I could watch Germany (my mom is German), but it is less interesting while it is only about qualification. It would be a shame if they wouldn't make it. Hungary (where my father is from) on the other side is not in a that comfortable situation and that makes it more exciting...
     
  7. Freya

    Freya Queen of Lurkers

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    OOoooohhh YES :D... "couldn't resist, i'm drunk,swedish, agree on "don't like ibrahimovic" and should go to bed"
     
  8. GeoModder

    GeoModder Deity

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    You could overlap some buildings from the classical and the medieval cityset in the medieval era, and use the complete medieval set for the renaissance era. In CC I'm in the proces of shifting the Firaxis renaissance set to the industrial era.
    I find it fits better with the graphics units of a certain era use at the onset of a new era. And architectural styles are usually slow to switch no new concepts anyway IRL.
    On the size of the Renaissance buildings: they are scaled a bit too high by Firaxis, so decreasing their size is a good idea. I should do it too.

    Btw, is it possible you have a building with a wrong texture in the first picture? Classical era picture, on the top right of the city. The grayish-looking building...
     
  9. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    Next time we should dope with Túró Rudi. No chance that the opponent could beat us then :D

    Yeah, thought about things like that. Could be that I do it this ways.

    Right. I guess I will have to make the classical houses a bit smaller, too, as they would be too large next to Freyas cityset.

    Possible is everything, but I wonder how this could have happened as I never touched the classical cityset. BTW: I have to remove those houses of the default medieval cityset from the classical cityset. Those absolutely don't fit to Hungary I think.

    EDIT:
    - the building you though had a wrong texture, was one of Freyas medieval buildings, I think. There was a wrong definition that made it show up in both eras.
    - Does anyone know how to influence the ground of a city? I mean, the new industrial cityset looks neatly with smaller houses (I just left the parks as they are), but it is a bit strange that the ground is concreted.
     
  10. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    This time I don't edit an older post as this might get missed. I set up the citystyle as suggested. The medieval citystyle is now a combination of Freyas medieval cityset and the default classical cityset. I kept care to use only houses without székelykapu, because I thought that should be a renaissance feature. The renaissance citystyle is the former medieval citystyle and the industrial citystyle is what was renaissance before. I have to fix the ground now, at least for the new renaissance cities. Also, could it be that firaxis screwed up something with their renaissance citytyle? It looks like there is a building that is 'glittering'. So far I thought this has been caused by my laptops cheap graphics hardware, but it is happening on my new desktop pc, too. Also, the building in question seems to be quite larger, but there is no building of this size in the set. I guess this building is actually two buildings and the glimmer is because sometimes it renders the wall of the first, some times the wall of the second building...

    Now I only have to edit the cottages etc.
     
  11. Freya

    Freya Queen of Lurkers

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    cool3a2: - Does anyone know how to influence the ground of a city?

    yes, the code is in the end of the cityLSystem.xml file, look for decoration:all_city_lots
     
  12. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    Yep, that did the trick. I attached some more screenies of the citysets. There are no cottages on the picture, but those are nothing special. They are default for classical era, mixed out of Freyas medieval and the default classical cityset for medieval era and using Freyas cityset only for both renaissance and industrial citystyle. I also gave the 3x3 leaf a ground for industrial times after I took those pictures. In practise that means that the palace building will have a ground, too (but that's not yet on the picture). Let me know what you think.

    (industrial citystyle in the next post)
     
  13. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    Industrial citystyle.
     
  14. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Huhh, too many information. Come on guys, I was only away for a few days :)

    Ehh, hungarian football. It is hard to say anything, it was so close. U r right, maybe some turó rudi would have helped
    Hope they are the main sponsor of the hungarian team tomorrow (against Portugal) ;)
    You have a damn good point with Ibrahimovic, i don't like him either. He was a really good young player 10 years ago, a promising talent in Ajax, but since then...no comment.
    This info is for you, Freya: Otherwise I really like Scandinavian football, especially Denmark but Sweden too, so it is a really unfortunate group for me.

    Btw I was playing soccer for many years, just stopped playing in clubs recently (2 years ago), after some injuries...
    Still playing in my university's championshop though.
    And I can't imagine my life without football, but prefer playing rather then watching :)

    So back to citysets:
    - I agree that the székelykapu should be part only the renaissance villages, but maybe it could be part of the medieval city too.
    - I can imagine that main city have some "modern" houses too, while the surrounding towns and villages are not that developed so only have towns from the previous era.
    So not just the medievel city could have szekelykapu, the renaissance city can have some buildings from the current industrial, and when we will have a new modern,
    then the industrial city can have some of the new buildings u requested.
    - Was it intentional to use the same hamlet for the industrial and renaissance? I think the industiral could be more developed
    - When the modern style will be ready, it would include bulidings from the late 19th and early 20th century, right? A little old for modern set, but i'm cool with that,
    if it will be mixed too. Or there will be a future cityset too with really modern buildings too?
     
  15. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    I was not entirely sure of the eras (at least in civ 4), so I tried to find historically correct dates for Hungary

    Classical: 700 BC - 500
    Medieval: 476 - 1453
    Renaissance: 1300 - 1650 (in Hungary)
    Industrial: 1760-1860 (little later in Hungary)
    Modern: I suppose from ~1950

    So hungarians were nomad people through the first 2 eras, but i agree with avain, the nomad citystyle should be only for the ancient era. Basically Hungary is in ancient era till 895, the Honfoglalás.
    On the other side, the renaissance started really early in Hungary becuse the good Italian relations, even before Zsigmond's rule (1387-1437), altough it's golden age was under Matthias (1458-1490).
    On the top of that, the industrial started little late...
    So that leaves us with classical and medieval eras longing just for a few centuries, between 900-1350 (altough hungary did not really have a classical era style, but in civ u can't just skip one),
    and with a very-very long renaissance. Altough medieval were there all along in smaller towns.

    Because of this I like the idea of mixing citysets, especially medieval and renaissance. My point is the pics above have medieval dominance, whilst there should be at least that much renaissaince too.
    Ohh medieval means Freya's city, and renaissance means some of the green roofed buildings.

    So this can be a better version (at least historically):
    ancient = your new mongol citystyle
    classical = the way on the pic (btw the buildings are still much bigger in this set than in the others)
    medieval = mostly Freya's set, with a few classical buildings in the smaller villages, and with a few renaissance buildings in the city
    renaissance = mostly medieval szekelykapus buildings in smaller villages, but just a few in bigger villages, and all renaissance buildings in the city
    industrial = still have some medieval in the smallest village, otherwise some renaissance in the bigger ones and the city, and some of the upcoming modern style

    Before u freak out from my many new suggestions :), I don't want u to make all these changes, it would be a huge work. Just to discuss them
     
  16. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    I actually didn't change the sizes of the houses for the classical citystyle, only for the medieval style to keep proportions of the two citysets houses. But changing the sizes of the classical citystyle should be no problem either as I would have to copy some values only.
    I would not mix 3 citysets within a single era, because that would make it somewhat chaotic, I think. Also, if I remember correctly this can cause troubles according to GeoModder.
    I may be able to influence the frequency of the houses of a certain cityset if it is mixed with another (thus making Freyas houses appear more often). For each era there is a set of xml definitions that represent possible houses that can appear during that era. So far I put in all of Freyas houses for the medieval set that have no székelykapu plus all houses from the classical citystyle that are not from the medieval cityset*. Also, the houses are divided into groups according to their sizes. For simplicity we will think about this like there is only one group. I don't know how much houses they were exactly without looking it up. Let's say there are 5 definitions referencing the classical cityset and 3 for Freyas buildings. I think that the game handles this roughly as follows: if it wants to select abuilding that should show up, it enlists all valid defintions for the current era and then slects one of those randomly. If this is true, then the likliness that one of Freyas buildings shows up (for the values from above), is 37.5% (three out of eight possibilities satisfy the condition). What I could do is copy one of the definitions for Freyas houses as there is no more house without székelykapu in her set that I could use. I don't think that the game checks the definitions for equality, so it shouldn't recognize that trick. The result is that the chance that houses of a certain set should equal, but the chance of the house thats definition I copied would increase (would be two times as high as of each other house). Alternatively, there might be an attribute of the definition controling the likliness that a certain house appears, but I haven't seen something like that yer, so I don't think there is something like that. So, if the effect described above is okay for you, I might do that. Oh, I could also remove a building from the citystyle. That would keep the frequency of the other buildings compared to each other, but would make the cityset less differ. On the other side, as I mixed two citysets, there are more definitions than for the other eras anyways. So if you dislike a certain building...

    EDITs:
    * to clearify things up: if I say cityset, I mean all the buildings in the same nif or the nif itself. The nifs are meant to suit to a certain era. If I say citystyle, then it is the set of houses that have been put together for a certain era and a certain civ. This could be a combination of different nifs.

    - missed your previous post:
    Yes, in some ways it was. Which houses are selected for a hamlet, works similar like for the main city. The buildings are selected randomly, only their count differs between cottages, hamlets, villages and towns. I made the hamlets having the same buildings (from Freyas cityset) to choose from (only ignored the ones with székelykapu I hope). I did this with intention, but I could make a mix of different citysets again if you want me to.
    There is a future era, so a future citystyle could look different then a modern one. By default there doesn't seem to be a difference... But we could work on this. I thought we should put in some glas houses for the future citystyle. The default modern cityset should suit for that. About the modern set: yes, it should represent the time from the late 19th century, but should last till 1990, I'd say. I mean, houses like I suggested, are still in use in Budapest, but newly built houses are more 'glassy' (shopping centers tend to be for example), at least this is what I see when I pass through it on my way to my grandparents village. Still, we could mix up a modern citystyle by using different houses then I posted. I took a look at Walter Hawkwoods material he wants to create his cityset out of (a set of Axis and Allies houses) and there were two houses or so that looked okay (so we might reuse them), but also some that didn't fit, I think. Guess we have to wait till he finished his work.
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    I would probably use the other way around, but okay, i'll use it in the way you do :)
    So set=same style buildings from a historical era (like what Freya made)
    Style=which we are discussing now for each era in the game, usually mix of the previous sets.
    We have a cool ancient (your new set), classical (the one on the first pic), medieval (Freya) and renaissance set (green roofed buildings), a modern coming up, but no industrial or future (at least not unique enough)

    Probably you are right, mixing 3 sets in one style is not a good idea.
    But still, the most important thing from my previous post stands:
    The classical set should not be represented as much as the medieval or the renaissance set.

    So the way i see it now (altough u can convince me in some points):
    - The ancient style is fix, your whole ancinet set.
    - The classical style is okay as in the picture, maybe u could resize the houses to be the same as the ones in other eras.
    - Now the medieval style mostly have houses from the classical set, but I would only use very few from classical and mostly houses from Freya's medievel set,
    even a few with szekelykapu (at least in the main city)
    - The renaissance style should be a mix of medieval set houses and smaller renaissance set houses for villages and towns (maybe only medievel set houses for hamlets and cottages).
    They can have szekelykapu too. But the main city should have only buildings from the renaissance set, or very few ones from the medievel set.
    - Then the industrial style can use renaissance set buildings for the surrounding villages, and the main city can be a mix of buildings from the renaissance and modern sets.
    - Modern style can be the whole new set.
    - And then only the future style remains (to come up with something cool) ;)
     
  18. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    If i'm correct than my suggestion means that u put in the xml definitions:
    For medieval style villages 1-2 classical set building, and 3-4 medivel set buildings (maybe a few with szekelykapu for the bigger villages). The cottage can be one without szekelykapu.
    For medieval style city all of the medieval set buildings.
    For renaissance style villages 2-3 medievel set buildings (most of them with szekelykapu), and the buildings from renaissance set which fits well when mixed with them (probably the smaller ones).
    The cottage can be a medievel one with szekelykapu.
    For renaissance style city only buildings from renaissance set.
    For industrial style villages only renaissance set buildings.
    For industrial style city maybe u can use those 2 suitable buildings from Walter Hawkwood, and mix them with the cooler renaissance set buildings. Or maybe u can use some of
    the better looking industrial set buildings which u posted on the page before.

    This way we got ourselves 5 style's out of the 4 availeable sets, and the modern will be a whole new set nowhere used before.
     
  19. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Hohooo!! I suppose u r going to watch this match too.
    Anyway, we'll crush the portugese in an hour or so ,)
    They are no match for our mighty hungarian armies... or is this another game? :D
     
  20. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Deity

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    Sure, I'll watch the match. I had an overview over your suggestions, I'll have to take a closer look later, but so far they look promising.

    Good luck to our team!!!

    EDIT:
    Damn it. 1:1 or 0:0 would have been okay. The Portugese weren't that good...
     

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