HOF Challenge Series IX Discussion Thread

[Ozbenno]

Challenge VIII has less than a month left. It is time to start kicking around ideas for Challenge IX. Feedback on Challenge VIII (good and bad) is also appreciated.

The information required to properly define a game:

Settings:

• Victory Condition - Required
• Difficulty - Required (only one unless you also provide the adjustments)
• Starting Era - Required
• Map Size - Required
• Map Type - Optional
• Speed - Required
• Civ - - optional (might be best to pick one)
• Opponents -- optional (might be best to pick some or all)
• Required Options - optional (see below)
• Illegal Options - optional (see below)

Options:

• City Flipping after Conquest
• No Barbarians
• Raging Barbarians
• Aggressive AI
• Random Personalities
• Permanent Alliances
• Always War
• One-City Challenge
• Require Complete Kills
• No City Razing
• No Vassal States
• No Tribal Villages
• Choose Religions
• No Random Events

 

[Revent]

Victory Condition - Conquest
Difficulty - Monarch or Emperor
Starting Era - Ancient
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Great Plains
Speed - Normal
Civ - Genghis Khan
Opponents - Must include: Qin Shi Huang (China), Wang Kon (Korea), Darius (Persia), Catherine (Russia), Gandhi (India), Mehmed (Ottoman)
Required Options - No Huts, No Events, Raging Barbarians, Aggressive AI, Require Complete Kills, No Vassal States
Illegal Options - No Barbarians

 

[UnforcedError]

I know I'm new to these series so I don't know whether I'm entitled to suggest games yet

As a result of the BW discussion I thought of the following setting:

Victory Condition - Conquest
Difficulty - Immortal
Starting Era - Ancient
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Great Plains
Speed - Normal
Civilization - Portugal (Joao II)
Opponents - Must include: Spain (Isabella), Celts (Brennus), Byzantium (Justinian), India (Asoka), Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Incan Empire (Huayna Capac)
Required Options - No Huts, No Events
Illegal Options - No Barbarians

 

[shulec]

Here is a proposed set of 10 games, including the two already suggested:

Stats:
2 games: Space, domination, conquest, diplomacy.
1 game: Cultural, Religious with high score as winner.

1 game: Medieval start
7 games: Barbs required including 2 with raging barbs
1 game: OCC

Deity: 1 (nerfed)
Immortal: 2
Emperor: 4
Monarch: 1
Prince: 1
Noble: 1

Victory Condition - Space
Difficulty - Emperor
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Normal
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Terra
Required Options - No Huts, No Events, no vassal states
Illegal Options - No barbarians
Civilization - Netherlands as Willem Van Oranje
Opponents - Must Include: Mansa Musa, Sitting Bull, Joao, Ragnar, Hannibal, Gandhi, Boudica, Augustus Caesar

Victory Condition - Space
Difficulty - Deity
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Marathon
Map Size - Small
Map Type - Any
Required Options - No huts, no events
Illegal Options - No barbarians
Civilization - Sumeria as Gilgamesh
Opponents - Any

Victory Condition - Diplomatic
Difficulty - Emperor
Starting Era - Medieval
Game Speed - Quick
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Continents
Required Options - OCC, no huts, no events
Illegal Options - none
Civilization - Rome as Augustus Caesar
Opponents - Must include: Isabella, Pacal, Willem van Oranje, Cyrus, Sitting Bull, Charlemagne

Victory Condition - Diplomatic
Difficulty - Noble
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Normal
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Highlands
Required Options - No huts, no events, no vassal states, raging barbarians
Illegal Options - No barbarians
Civilization - Mongolia as Kublai Khan
Opponents - Any

Victory Condition - Domination
Difficulty - Emperor
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Normal
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Continents
Required Options - No huts, no random events
Illegal Options - No barbarians
Civilization - Viking as Ragnar
Opponents - Must include: Alexander, Joao, Montezuma, Bismark, Saladin, Sulieman

Victory Condition - Domination
Difficulty - Immortal
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Epic
Map Size - Small
Map Type - Hemispheres
Required Options - No huts, no events
Illegal Options - No barbarians
Civilization - Charlemagne
Opponents - Must include: Mao Zedong, Suryavarman, Washinton, Ramsesses


Victory Condition - Conquest
Difficulty - Monarch
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Normal
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Great Plains
Required Options - Raging Barbarians, Aggressive AI, Require Complete Kills, No Vassal States
Illegal Options - No barbarians
Civilization - Mongolia as Genghis Khan
Opponents - Must include: Qin Shi Huang (China), Wang Kon (Korea), Darius (Persia), Catherine (Russia), Gandhi (India), Mehmed (Ottoman)


Victory Condition - Conquest
Difficulty - Immortal
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Normal
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Great Plains
Required Options - No huts, no events
Illegal Options - No barbarians
Civilization - Portugal as Joao
Opponents - Must include: Spain (Isabella), Celts (Brennus), Byzantium (Justinian), India (Asoka), Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Incan Empire (Huayna Capac)


Victory Condition - Cultural
Difficulty - Emperor
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Normal
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Pangaea
Required Options - No huts, no events
Illegal Options - none
Civilization - Ottoman as Sulieman
Opponents - Must include: Asoka, Mansa Musa, Catherine, Napoleon, Joao, Huayna Capac

Victory Condition - Religious, Highest Score wins
Difficulty - Prince
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Speed - Quick
Map Size - Small
Map Type - Rain Forest
Required Options - No huts, no events
Illegal Options - None
Civilization - India as Gandhi
Opponents - Any

 

[Ozbenno]

Thanks for the suggestions. Always like to have an Always War game in there, so if you could find your way to giving us a suggestion for this....

 

[shulec]

Since Revent and UnforcedError's suggestions are similar, I would suggest Revent's game be converted to Always War at Monarch or Emperor, and allow any victory type.

 

[UnforcedError]

You can change my game to AW too if you'd like and allow any victory type but in that case I doubt anyone would try and test skipping BW Alternatively the difficulty level can be lowered but IMM was the suggested one.

 

[Ozbenno]

I like UnforcedError's idea of Joao on Great Plains. I'll definately roll a start in the SE corner to rule the waves with my Carracks

Genghis AW (also on Great Plains) might be a hoot...

 

[UnforcedError]

^^Hey, you could even have a feitoria then! How unfair

 

[WastinTime]

I know I'm new to these series so I don't know whether I'm entitled to suggest games yet

As a result of the BW discussion I thought of the following setting:

Victory Condition - Conquest
Difficulty - Immortal
Starting Era - Ancient
Map Size - Standard
Map Type - Great Plains
Speed - Normal
Civilization - Portugal (Joao II)
Opponents - Must include: Spain (Isabella), Celts (Brennus), Byzantium (Justinian), India (Asoka), Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Incan Empire (Huayna Capac)
Required Options - No Huts, No Events
Illegal Options - No Barbarians

I read most of the BW discussion. It seems the major idea is to unlock new tech bulbs. (The most interesting to me is a Feudalism bulb for early vassals.) Anyway, I suggest you use a PHI leader or else you kill the whole idea of getting a fast GP to bulb something.

 

[WastinTime]

I read most of the BW discussion. It seems the major idea is to unlock new tech bulbs. (The most interesting to me is a Feudalism bulb for early vassals.) Anyway, I suggest you use a PHI leader or else you kill the whole idea of getting a fast GP to bulb something.

And one more thing. To take the pain away from no-BW (chopping is the most important), maybe an Archipelago map? This should really encourage people to try out the "avoid BW" idea. Otherwise, most will probably go with chops.
Hmm. But playing a water map without slavery isn't going to work. Not sure what map to suggest.

The nice thing about making this the AW game is that you won't be tempted to simply get BW free in a trade.

 

[vranasm]

And one more thing. To take the pain away from no-BW (chopping is the most important), maybe an Archipelago map? This should really encourage people to try out the "avoid BW" idea. Otherwise, most will probably go with chops.
Hmm. But playing a water map without slavery isn't going to work. Not sure what map to suggest.

The nice thing about making this the AW game is that you won't be tempted to simply get BW free in a trade.

well seems to be that great plains map with start in the middle south is most reasonable...

you need start with very low food, high production and no trees.

now you have to solve the problem with enforcing players using such starts and not the fruitful ones in the east of great plains map.

I rolled one start on great plains map middle north and even that was described as having too much food to not tech slavery.

we talk here about 3-4 plains cows start with couple of plains hills barren...but I can't just imagine someone would deliberately use such start in competition where you can choose starts.

 

[Bugio]

And one more thing. To take the pain away from no-BW (chopping is the most important), maybe an Archipelago map? This should really encourage people to try out the "avoid BW" idea. Otherwise, most will probably go with chops.
Hmm. But playing a water map without slavery isn't going to work. Not sure what map to suggest.

The nice thing about making this the AW game is that you won't be tempted to simply get BW free in a trade.

Indeed BW is too important for a water map, slavery, chopping and unlocking metal casting for triremes and colossus. Not to mention future water techs.

Bulbing feudalism is pretty good on some maps, with sitting bull you can effectively use uber longbows to kill many opponents. Sitting bull on a hilly map to discourage mounted wars and help longbows last longer? Level should not be to high or they'll get feudalism too soon, monarch should be fine.

 

[WastinTime]

Indeed BW is too important for a water map, slavery, chopping and unlocking metal casting for triremes and colossus. Not to mention future water techs.

Bulbing feudalism is pretty good on some maps, with sitting bull you can effectively use uber longbows to kill many opponents. Sitting bull on a hilly map to discourage mounted wars and help longbows last longer? Level should not be to high or they'll get feudalism too soon, monarch should be fine.

Ok, so maybe Sitting Bull on Rainforest. He's PHI. That jungle will discourage mounted wars and also not provide chop hammers.

 

[shulec]

Ok, so maybe Sitting Bull on Rainforest. He's PHI. That jungle will discourage mounted wars and also not provide chop hammers.

I sure would want to whip away unhappiness from all my pigs and rice.

Once more, you guys are showing that no BW strategy has a very limited applicability.

 

[UnforcedError]

I sure would want to whip away unhappiness from all my pigs and rice.

Once more, you guys are showing that no BW strategy has a very limited applicability.

It does indeed. In fact it seems impossible to find a suitable map for it. SB would probably be OK as a leader too. I actually thought of choosing one without a useful UU or UB (on GP).

 

[WastinTime]

Another perfect fit for SB is that he doesn't require copper for his UU.

Oh wait, but you still need BW

 

[Revent]

I think getting a no BW map will not work for HoF games. It will have to be for xOTM I think for it to be successful. The map would have to be tailor made with low food and deforestation for this to be viable

 

[UnforcedError]

I think getting a no BW map will not work for HoF games. It will have to be for xOTM I think for it to be successful. The map would have to be tailor made with low food and deforestation for this to be viable

I didn't intend to try and force anyone to play one way or the other. I actually thought of rolling until I got a suitable start for testing and see how I can progress compared to the other games. (Then again, I might get tired of rerolling...)

 

[Bugio]

I think getting a no BW map will not work for HoF games. It will have to be for xOTM I think for it to be successful. The map would have to be tailor made with low food and deforestation for this to be viable

I don't know, it should be easy enough to check if you have researched BW at the end of the game or not. Some special condition can be enabled to spice it up like conquest game, highest score win.
The purpose of challenger is not making in the hof table, but exploring unusual settings possibilities and see who can adapt the best strategy, at least that's how i see it.