HOF III October/November Gauntlet

[Tone]

Calis has thrown down the gauntlet and CKS has picked up the challenge. This month the settings are:

Level Emperor
Mapsize Tiny
VC Diplomatic

Games should be submitted by 15th November 2009 Please post details on your attempts if you have the time.

 

[Calis]

Calis has thrown down the gauntlet and CKS has picked up the challenge. This month the settings are:

Level Emperor
Mapsize Tiny
VC Diplomatic

Games should be submitted by 15th November 2009 Please post details on your attempts if you have the time.

C'mon guys. Pick up the gauntlet. As November 15 is one day after my birthday, I expect you to take second place or worse, ya'know...

As mentioned, I expect something at least in the 6xx as a result for this gauntlet...

 

[Spoonwood]

I wonder how fast an OCC can do on this sort of map.

 

[CKS]

Well, at least these games play a lot faster than last month's. My first game played out nicely until the end, whereupon I realized that I'll never win the vote if everyone is in it. There doesn't seem to be a quick way out from my current situation, so I'll be trying again. I won't be approaching 6xx anytime soon, though. If I get a three-digit year it'll be a miracle.

 

[Spoonwood]

Who's your opponent in elections CKS? You might DoW them and then sign everyone into an alliance against them.

 

[Spoonwood]

For this sort of map (and upper level maps in general I guess), does it work better to play with sedentary barbies for the faster AA, or better to play without Babylon and use a CB SGL for the Pyramids?

 

[CKS]

Who's your opponent in elections CKS? You might DoW them and then sign everyone into an alliance against them.

No, the problem is that I have two opponents, and I hadn't realized it until the vote was actually held the first time.

 

[Calis]

For this sort of map (and upper level maps in general I guess), does it work better to play with sedentary barbies for the faster AA, or better to play without Babylon and use a CB SGL for the Pyramids?

Forget the Barbs. The second choice is better by far. On a tiny map with three opponents, I'd think that you are lucky, if you get to pop 4-5 huts and then the chance that you'll get an SGL for CB is rather low, because others may pop it before you have the chance to research it. And for just a few techs, the Expansionistic trait is a waste on this map/difficulty.

 

[Spoonwood]

Calis, I didn't mean the human player popping a bunch of huts. The AIs get techs faster if they can pop huts, so the inital overall tech pace goes faster. Still, the Pyramids might work better since the AIs won't help the tech pace go faster later one.

 

[Calis]

Calis, I didn't mean the human player popping a bunch of huts. The AIs get techs faster if they can pop huts, so the inital overall tech pace goes faster. Still, the Pyramids might work better since the AIs won't help the tech pace go faster later one.

Sorry! That was a misunderstanding on my part. But still, I think that this might lower the chances to get an early SGL, which is much more important, as you already mentioned.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think going for a CB SGL is better than hut popping. The problem is, the AI will mainly be popping the starting techs and, maybe, 2nd level ones - which they are going to research anyway.

And if they don't, you run the risk of someone popping philo.

You could try to get an SGL for alphabet, though, and try to pop a settler.

 

[Spoonwood]

Wet, Warm, 5 billion vs. Korea, Germany, and Sumeria. I played as the Ottos and took the CB SGL for the Pyramids, with 001 going warrior-Pyramids-settlers. I had two cows in my capital's radius and a lot of flood plains.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1256262278.jpg
I popped into the Middle Ages around 1200 BC or so and finished the Museum of Mausollos in 1100 BC to trigger my GA with the AIs getting me Engineering and Feudalism, with me drawing Monotheism (yuck! get them to get you Monotheism, and get Theology as your freebie.).

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1256262279.jpg I only had two native luxuries, so I built the Hanging Gardens to help things out for a while.

I hit the Industrial Ages in 130 BC with the AIs getting Nationalism (which I couldn't buy even with the slider at 0%) and Steam Power, which I purchased and drew Medicine.

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/?action=view&current=1256262280.jpg I got a second SGL in the industrial ages, which I saved for the U. N. I hit the modern era about 560 AD, with Germany getting Rocketry and the others Ecology. I only managed to buy Ecology, and I got Computers as my free tech. It took me 7 turns to research Fission and I didn't know if I could have SGLed rushed SETI and then used "what's the big picture" to swap to the U. N., so I waited until I finished Fission completely and then SGL rushed it, getting everyone's vote except for Korea's.

The AIs didn't actually research a single tech for me in the Middle Ages. I researched Electricity first thing in the Industrial Ages, and then gifted them it as soon as I finished. It payed off as Korea got me Replacable Parts before I needed it. I didn't have coal initially, but settled on top of some nearby on a border spot. I had two German and one Korean city flip to me. I had 3 native sources of iron which I used for some nice trades. I didn't maintain 4 turn research throughout, but I did have some points in both the middle and industrial ages where that happened. I didn't build a single factory or hospital, so no pollution problems.

Oh... and I finished in 640 AD.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1256262281.jpg

 

[Calis]

Looks good. You were just a little bit unlucky with your free techs in the Modern Times.

I am going to start my game soon...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Wet, Warm, 5 billion vs. Korea, Germany, and Sumeria. I played as the Ottos and took the CB SGL for the Pyramids, with 001 going warrior-Pyramids-settlers. I had two cows in my capital's radius and a lot of flood plains. I popped into the Middle Ages around 1200 BC or so and finished the Museum of Mausollos in 1100 BC to trigger my GA with the AIs getting me Engineering and Feudalism, with me drawing Monotheism (yuck! get them to get you Monotheism, and get Theology as your freebie.). I only had two native luxuries, so I built the Hanging Gardens to help things out for a while.

I hit the Industrial Ages in 130 BC with the AIs getting Nationalism (which I couldn't buy even with the slider at 0%) and Steam Power, which I purchased and drew Medicine. I got a second SGL in the industrial ages, which I saved for the U. N. I hit the modern era about 560 AD, with Germany getting Rocketry and the others Ecology. I only managed to buy Ecology, and I got Computers as my free tech. It took me 7 turns to research Fission and I didn't know if I could have SGLed rushed SETI and then used "what's the big picture" to swap to the U. N., so I waited until I finished Fission completely and then SGL rushed it, getting everyone's vote except for Korea's.

The AIs didn't actually research a single tech for me in the Middle Ages. I researched Electricity first thing in the Industrial Ages, and then gifted them it as soon as I finished. It payed off as Korea got me Replacable Parts before I needed it. I didn't have coal initially, but settled on top of some nearby on a border spot. I had two German and one Korean city flip to me. I had 3 native sources of iron which I used for some nice trades. I didn't maintain 4 turn research throughout, but I did have some points in both the middle and industrial ages where that happened. I didn't build a single factory or hospital, so no pollution problems.

Oh... and I finished in 640 AD. Pictures later, MAYBE.

I am 99% sure that if you SGL rush a wonder, you can't switch it to another one later, because you have the "tainted shields" problem.

 

[Bartleby]

I have the extra 1%.

 

[TxCraig]

70% pangaea, normal, warm, 4byo, no barbs, least aggressive. I have attached a screenshot of the starting location.

I have been playing Civ3 for several years, and this was my first CB SGL. Wow. That's powerful.

Played as Sumeria vs. China & France. I chose least aggressive, but that did not stop the AI from sneak-attacking me a couple of times and thereby becoming furious with me. Sigh. Gilgamesh is a nice guy and just wants to be friends, really! As usual, despite my best efforts I managed to ruin my trading rep, and again, no clue how. (It could be that I had a resource trade going with China, and when France pushed them off the mainland, they had no harbors in their island towns.)

Entered the Modern Age in 1295 and got Computers. Researched Fission in 7 turns and switched to finish the UN on the last turn (AD 1330) via What's the big picture. When it came time for the UN vote, Joan of Arc voted for herself and Mao abstained.

After playing this game I realize I need to treat Diplomatic more like SS than 20K. This game will be at the bottom of the Diplo chart, if it charts at all; the projected 20K win date would put it at #8 on the 20K chart. I actually like this map size, difficulty, and these two opponents for 20K. The tech pace was fast, the wonder pace was slow, and if I had been trying for 20K, I probably could have had a decent win date.

Build order in the capital was Temple - Pyramids - Warrior - Worker - Warrior - Settlers. Entered Middle Ages in 750 BC, IA in AD 590. Did building the temple & 2 warriors hurt my progress so much? I guess it did.

China declared war in 810, shortly before I got Replaceable Parts. Neither of us had iron, so it was guerillas vs. spearmen, . Captured Beijing in 980. China declared again in 1090 (with 10 turns left on the peace treaty).

France declared on China in 1300 and pushed them off the mainland. I bought rubber from France for 82gpt and 2 lux, and as soon as our deal was over, France went to war with us. This time it was early-Modern Age combined arms vs. infantry, . I brought Mao into the war and suddenly he's gracious, and the next vote (1665), he votes for me.

I popped into the Middle Ages around 1200 BC . . . . I hit the Industrial Ages in 130 BC

Oh, that's awesome! How? The two cows & flood plains?

 

[Spoonwood]

It's mostly about the expansion. 001 went warrior-Pyramids (even with 6 or so shields wasted towards a warrior) and then settlers and maybe a worker or two along the way, but I don't think I did that, just settlers. I didn't have any dedicated worker pumps, since I had the Pyramids, and could just produce settlers from anywhere I chose (mostly sub-size 7 cities). The earlier I found cities, the earlier I could get commerce in. Research wise I believe I went CB-Alphabet (traded for with 5 or 4 turns left), Writing-Code of Laws-Philosophy-The Republic (freebie)-Literature-Currency and traded for the rest. Maybe I researched Mathematics also, or Construction.

I may have pre-built some libraries, and I think I pre-built the Forbidden Palace a bit too, but I didn't have all too great of production where I threw it up (at least not compared to what I feel more use to on Standard or larger sized maps). The middle-age GA helped throw infrastructure up, and it probably would have helped even more had some AI had gotten Monotheism for me AND I got Theology as my free tech so that I could research Education immediately. I did build Cope's and Newton's (and the Hanging Gardens to help with happiness). The Colossus would have helped also, but I didn't really have a site where I could throw that up all too easily.

Pics up above.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

a 20K-type strat is perfectly useful in a game like this, particularly on a tiny map.

Basically, after you get pyramids, pop out a settler or two, then focus the cap on low cost wonders that will get you tourist income, particularly if you can get collosus.

With the doublers, your cap could get 300-400 bpt pretty easily by the IA, I'd think. It's not quite as good as a 20K game, cause you won't bother with shakespeare's, but then, you won't be spending time building temples/caths/colloseums, either. You will probably end up with slightly less anarchy, too, since you'll have expanded less, and may get through the AA faster.

You will probably kick off your GA earlier, which may or may not be an issue.

 

[Calis]

I started dozens of maps and didn't get a single SGL so far...

I always continued with Mysticism to get a second chance on an SGL, but....

This is my minimum request to continue with the map. So I am still looking for an adequate start...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Who are you starting with? If you are going with persia or otto, I'd try CB and pottery, as opposed to mysticism, using the 3 Alpha civs as my opponents.