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HOF Mod Support/Suggestions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by superslug, Apr 15, 2006.

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  1. superslug

    superslug Still hatin' on Khan Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Announcing the latest versions of the HOF Mod for Sid Meier's Civilization 4:

    NOTE: Please see the additional posts in this thread for important support information!

    HOF Mod 3.13.001 for Sid Meier's Civilization 4 - Beyond the Sword Version 3.13

    HOF Mod 2.13.002 for Sid Meier's Civilization 4 - Warlords Version 2.13

    HOF Mod 1.74.0021 for Sid Meier's Civilization 4 - Version 1.74 (Vanilla)

    HOF Mod details can be found here.
     
  2. superslug

    superslug Still hatin' on Khan Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    GOTM/WOTM Compatibility for Players without BTS Patch 3.13:

    In order to avoid "Protected Assets" that prevent someone from opening the GOTM or WOTM savegame files, please update your CvGameCoreDLL.dll using the ones in this zip file. This will also be helpful for others wishing to download your HOF savegame files.


    Steam Edition:
    • The Vanilla and BTS Versions work for the Hall of Fame with the new HOF Mods. Although for compatibility with the GOTM, please please update your CvGameCoreDLL.dll using the ones in the above zip file.
    • Please start and exit Vanilla Civ4 before attempting to install the Vanilla HOF Mod. Steam updates the Vanilla InstallPath to the intall path of the last version played. (i.e. If you last played BTS then the Vanilla HOF Mod will install to the BTS folder.) Notes:
      • Only the Vanilla HOF Mod is affected.
      • You can always override the HOF Mod's install path if it is not pointing to the right location.
    • Steam's Warlords assets do not match the other released versions. We are working on a file list/unoffical update.

    AssetChecker 2.0:

    New AssetChecker program has been created for players receiving the HOF Warning that your "Assets are different". (Please make sure that the "Locked Modified Assets" Game Option in Custom Game was checked, first.) You can download the checker from here: AssetChecker v2.0.zip.
     
  3. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I really like the fact that when starting a new game there is a warning statement (in bright red) that informs you the game does not meet HoF submission requirements. Thanks!
     
  4. Thrar

    Thrar King

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    Is there any chance to get the HoF working with blue marble?


    Edit: yes, it works fine. Absolutely no problem, in fact. I installed Civ, then 1.61, then HoF, finally Blue Marble, works like a charm.
     
  5. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Mods to graphics are not affected by "Lock Modified Assets". I haven't tried it but if it doesn't work from custom assets, then try installing Blue Marble to the mod folder. (Forget about CivScale, though. It changes XML, IIRC. ;) )

    You can use the HOF Start File option to verify your savegame. Please post your result here so other can benefit. :)
     
  6. Thrar

    Thrar King

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    I'll do that in a few days, I have a game in 1.52 that I want to finish first, and then probably do a clean install.
    If anyone gets it working earlier, please post!

    Oh, one more thing: the link to the specialist stacker doesn't seem to work.
     
  7. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Thanks for the heads up. It works now.
     
  8. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Can games played with the HOF mod be loaded in vanilla Civ4?
     
  9. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    No, the HOF Mod name is stored within the save game. The game will automatically load the HOF Mod when you open a game created using it. The is true for all "full" Mods, AFAIK.

    NOTE: Lest someone misunderstand, in this case, by "full" Mod, I mean a Mod that has it's own Assets folder structure in the MODS directory similar to the Greek Scenario, etc. That structure is used instead of CustomAssets to override the installed Assets.
     
  10. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    Can games played with the HOF mod 1.61 be loaded with HOF mod 1.61-future revision? I understand that HOF mod 1.61 won't work with patch 1.52. How about game play with HOF mod 1.61-revision-A, can it be loaded with HOF mod 1.61-revision-B, etc? I assume that the HOF mod will be revived constantly, right? Do I need to keep a track of which game was played with which mod? If I need to revisit an old game, do I need to keep a copy of all the mods?

    Also, would you take a second to explain your obsession of forcing people into playing the mod? Since you are gods of this forum, you can pretty much make up any rules you like. Although I can't really ask god(s) about "the meaning of life?", I hope the lesser gods would explain why I have to use the mod?;)
     
  11. akamal

    akamal Chieftain

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    Excellent job merging so many useful enhancements into a single 1.61 compatible package so quickly!

    But, as these are interface enhancements it would be great to have them permanently installed in CustomAssets, regardless of which rules/gameplay Mod I may be using.

    Would it be possible for you to explain what you needed to do to make them all work together, with 1.61?

    cheers
    ak
     
  12. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Civ4 stores the Mod used in the save file. It might be necessary to keep the different versions of the mod around but Civ4 would know which version it needed and would automatically load it. The versions would be numbered: 1.61.001, 1.61.002, etc.

    The main reason for the the obsession is the changes to the save format built into the MOD using the SDK: compression and encryption. The number of tables for Civ 4 is going to be greater than for Civ 3. The number of save files and space they will require is large. Compression will help with that. Encryption is ensure no one can use a save file editor to alter the savegame files. They did just release the SDK, you know.
     
  13. Dianthus

    Dianthus Small but hardy

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    No, that won't work. Not just because we will name the mod dir differently either, but because the CRCs will be different for different versions of the mod, so "Lock Modified Assets" would prevent you opening a save file with different CRCs for the mod.



    I guess you mean "revised" :mischief:. It will be revised, but not constantly. We have no intention of spending all of our time modding, and having lots of versions of the mod around will cause us more problems with support and verification.



    Each time a new version of the mod comes out it will be installed into a different mod dir. That save game file will keep track of the mod dir it was created with and tell you if it cannot be found. I guess that means that we just need to make sure we have old versions of the mod available just in case.



    It's mostly about security, though we've tried to add some cool and useful stuff to the mod as well. With the release of the SDK virtually the whole of the file format is now exposed to the public, which would make it pretty easy to write a tool to edit files. The HOF mod encrypts the save file, so making it harder for this to happen. Also some extra CRCs are stored for things we think were missed. Also, the settings checks should avoid many of the game rejections we've had to deal with up to now. Note that by default the HOF mod has settings set to the same as vanilla, apart from the HOF settings checks on starting a new game.



    It might well be possible, but why not just use the mod directly? There's no reason you can't use it for normal non-HOF games.
     
  14. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Truthfully, we had a headstart, but you didn't hear that from me. ;)

    There are combined mods that include most of what we have in the HOF Mod. Once they have been updated to 1.61, you can use one of those. To learn more about them and how to mod Civ4 you should visit the Creation & Customization forums.
     
  15. superslug

    superslug Still hatin' on Khan Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    The meaning of life is to play Civilization. ;)

    Can I take a second to explain the requirement of the mod? Given that the final decision was mine, I should have done so already!

    But first, I would like to at least question the notion that we can make up any rules we like. While a largely autonomous operation, we do have to obey the rules of our god (Thunderfall). Also, if our ruleset drove players en masse away from the Hall of Fame, then there wouldn't be a point to the Hall of Fame and we'd be shut down as wasted webspace and forum.

    We on the staff do this as a community service (albeit largely to allay our guilt at spending so much time playing Civilization). As a former moderator yourself, you understand as well as anyone that the benefits package is minimal and the pay sucks. :D

    And so, the decision to require the mod for HOF play was with the community in mind, even if it's interpreted by some as controversial or "tough love".

    The benefits:
    • Security-Dianthus and Denniz have already nailed this one good, so I won't really drone on about it. Simply put, the public release of the SDK made save editing and analysis the largest threat to the integrity of the Hall of Fame. This could have been anything from gleaning spoiler information, fudging reload data to editing scores and dates.

      So we fought fire with fire, and in as much as IV's moddability was the problem, it was also the answer. We've gone from our worst possible circumstances, to the most secure. Cheating is rarely discussed in the HOF/GOTM forums, largely because staffs are present to deal with behind the scenes. Players are left then to focus purely on fun and improvement, and this is now more true than ever.
    • Filesize-Denniz already pointed out that it means we can have more tables in less server space. I'd just like to add that it'll cut down significantly on CFC's general bandwidth, and shave an occasional second or two off HOF player's download and upload times.
    • Settings-We quickly realized in HOF III that most game rejections weren't the result of rule breaking, but just bad settings. This of course wastes the time of both HOF Staff and players alike. Creating the 4000bc check page reduced this significantly, but with the HOF mod, players are now warned about a lot of settings before they start a game, regardless of whether they check the 4000bc page.

      The mod is by no means foolproof on this, it probably never will be, but every little bit helps. Consider for a moment that in five months, the Beta HOF for IV has received more submissions than HOF-III has in five years! 10x the traffic, but we only increased the staff by 25% thus far.

      I couldn't even begin to estimate the player hours we've saved.
    • Parity-With the release of the 1.52 mod, we were able to have the best of both worlds, seemingly, in that we could allow certain utilities while still having No Cheat Mode. But then I noticed an increasing disparity between the mods and mod-nots. The mod-not games, in general, weren't as successful as the mod games, nor could the mod-nots open the mod saves for study without the mod. By addressing this inequality, the HOF comes down to devotion and playerskill, which is as it ought to be.
    • A single download-GOTM requires a file download every month, and you can only use it once. What I'm asking is something updated a few times a year perhaps, and you can use it as much as you like.

    Okay, that's a long winded answer, but given the magnitude of the requirement, I think it appropriate. Although I will admit that Dianthus, Mistfit and Denniz are probably laughing their heads off right now. I've got a stringent rule in the HOF Staff Forum that what happens in the Rabbithole stays in the Rabbithole, but on this particular occasion, I'll look the other way if my fellow staff members choose to tease me a little at my verbosity. :mischief:
     
  16. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    Thank you all for your answers.:) I'm totally satisfied with your explaination. In fact, I have been playing with the Mod yesterday; it was great!:goodjob:

    PS: In your next update, may want to correct your "readme.htm" file. There is no such thing as Civilization4.ini file; however, there is CivilizationIV.ini. I did a system search for Civilization4.ini and couldn't find it anywhere...I later on, accidentally run into CivilizationIV.ini under "My Games...." folder.
     
  17. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Ok - I understand the need to have security and a special save format while you are playing the game.

    But would it be possible to un-encrypt the saves after they are submitted? It's hard to brag about your achievements if people can't load your save.
     
  18. Dianthus

    Dianthus Small but hardy

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    That would take quite a bit of work. It would be easy to unprotect them and make them use the latest version of the mod. That way you would be able to open any submitted games with the latest version. Would that be enough?
     
  19. Bozso

    Bozso Chieftain

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    I downloaded the mod from here:

    http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mods/HOF-1.61.001.zip

    But after the unzip it said there is a CRC error:

    Extracting to "g:\"
    Use Path: yes Overlay Files: no
    Extracting HOF-1.61.001.exe
    CRC check failed

    (I have tried it several times)

    Please help me by providing a link without CRC error ASAP.

    Thank you in advance.
     
  20. Dianthus

    Dianthus Small but hardy

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    It works OK for me, I just downloaded it and extracted. I've just uploaded the exe to the HOF site, so maybe you will have more luck with that. It's [Edit] Link removed. [/Edit]
     
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