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Holkan, Impi or Spearman?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by reddishrecue, Feb 23, 2012.

?

Holkan, Impi or Spearman?

  1. Holkan

    16 vote(s)
    30.8%
  2. Impi

    31 vote(s)
    59.6%
  3. Spearman

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. None/Other.

    5 vote(s)
    9.6%
  1. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    WHich of these spearmen do you prefer? Holkan, Impi or Spearman?
     
  2. MilesBeyond

    MilesBeyond Chieftain

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    Well since both of them are basically improved Spearmen, I can't see anyone choosing the Spearman.

    I've never used either of the UUs but based on pure theory alone, the Impi seems like it would be substantially better. 2 movement + Mobility means that it can not only keep pace with but actually outmanoeuvre mounted units, which is all they should be fighting anyway.

    The ability to keep Mobility through upgrades is a negligible bonus at best, since it won't actually come in handy again until Mech Infantry.

    I guess Holkans would be a better counter against Keshiks? Other than that, they seem inferior, because unless you enjoy the idea of using spearmen as your main attack force in a siege, the immunity to first strikes doesn't really help them all that much.
     
  3. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Both UUs are nice, but I prefer the Holkan for being resourceless and could easily kill barb archers. Impis could be useful for early attacks and chasing mounted down in your lands, but I haven't the experience to really know.
     
  4. rah

    rah Chieftain

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    Impis. The mobility early in the game is nice.
     
  5. uat2d

    uat2d ಠ_ಠ

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    Other: Axes.
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    Impi can cause problems in MP because they can outrun their counter unit and usually carry AGG due to being shaka. However, they're not a top tier UU...just ok.

    Holkans are worth mentioning too because they're guaranteed anti-barb and can press a choke too. They're probably slightly better in games with barbs on.

    The best spearman was the vanilla phalanx.
     
  7. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Holkans get my vote as they are much more valuable on IMM+ - it's not even close. Same reason Dog Soldiers are much more valued by experienced players while most just dog it as a terrible UU since you can't rush with them.

    Imps probably get a lot of votes since you can crush with them on lower levels. They are fun, but I generally build very few of them. I mean..heck...if you actually have copper at that point, you are much better off building axes with maybe one Impo for support.
     
  8. Mylene

    Mylene Chieftain

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    Impis nice for HA rushes, promoted with shock they can secure your horsies from spears.
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    true, there is a nice synergy there with mounted, My....like Mouseketeers/Curs, if you actually have metals and horses when rushing
     
  10. Tatran

    Tatran Chieftain

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    :confused:
    Only +25 hill defense.

    :hmm:
    It had also 5 strength.
     
  11. babar

    babar Chieftain

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    At least on higher levels, Impis would need to be top-tier to beat a resourceless UU (especially one with no downside). But Impis are barely above average I think.

    Of course if resources aren't an issue, Impis are comfortably better.
     
  12. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I dunno - with impi, you can bring along support for an HA rush and they aren't vulnerable to spears. That's valuable, just itself.

    it's a very flexible unit. Too bad it's movement points don't stay as it upgrades - a mobility pike with 1 move -> not very useful ;)
     
  13. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Chieftain

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    2 Move dude real stronk.
     
  14. Mylene

    Mylene Chieftain

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    Yip, Musketeers are an upper tier UU. Underrated.
    They are very useful for Curi whipping circles, sometimes enuf hammers will be available to complete a Musket in 1 turn after whipping a Curi, while Curi would need 2 turns.
    Nice mobile defenders for captured cities, i dun want my Curis defending vs. Jumbos or pikes if avoidable ;)
     
  15. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Pros attach GGs to their infantry and promote them with Morale.

    I like the Impi best too, because although the Holkan is solid for early barb defence, you still need axes/chariots when barb axes come popping up and the Impi is usable for combat with the AIs too.
     
  16. MilesBeyond

    MilesBeyond Chieftain

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    Well yeah, but how many GGs are you going to have, vs how many Infantry?
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    They retained their bonus vs mounted. They were literally effective against knights...while trouncing everything before. Very cost effective and long-lasting...
     
  18. Rusty Edge

    Rusty Edge Chieftain

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    I like Impis. They do spearmen stuff. They pillage. They run with the mounted hordes and can stay behind to garrison and upgrade in captured cities.

    Thing is, I think the AI plays Shaka better than most civs, and for that reason I normally include him in my games to play against , rather than select him to play as.
     
  19. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Pro's get machine guns in the BCs, promote them to drill 4 and declare war on Shaka and Monty simultaneously to farm GGs.

    Spoiler :
    I'm being ironic, both in this post and the previous one, in case you didn't get it yet ;)
     
  20. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    Phew. I was beginning to wonder if you had been talking to attacko.

    That's actually kind of an interesting strat - be imperialistic and protective, build the great wall and declare on shaka and monty and just defend with archers/longbows and watch the GG points pile up...

    Not really a good, winning strat, mind you ;) but it might be fun.
     

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