Holland refuses turkish FM to enter country, Erdogan retaliates calling dutch ministers nazis

Conspiracy theories can also be argued. They still remain what they are. IS, by the way, is not the result of ' Western policies against the Soviet Union'. For one, the USSR was already gone, and Iraq was actually a western partner before Bush Jr decided on wrecking the country, following 9/11 (again, no Soviet, or even Russian, connection there).



Actually, stability is just that. Failed or failing states are generally not in anyone's interest - least of all the inhabitants of such states. Somalia, Libya, Iraq and Syria are clear cases in point. Apart from Iraq these countries went into a downward spiral primarily because of internal causes. External intervention has done little to repair that - possibly even worsened the internal crises.
The green belt doctrine against the USSR is not a conspiracy theory, but an actual policy carried out by the CIA.

Failed or failing by whose standards? Yours? Failed by whose weapons? Whose puppets in power? Even so what kind of exceptionalist narcissism would prompt another capitalistic power to "unfail" these states? Do you think the rest of the world is naive or blind? If it is about saving the people, there are so many different ways of achieving that - like accepting refugees, building safe zones, providing healthcare services, and removing bloodthirsty warlords, maintaining order, and then leaving. Is there really a need to come in and take other people's stuff? Pardon me, that is, to bring "stability"?

England has been involved in some kind of military conflict within 90% of the entire planet's landmass, by country. Just what do you think you were doing all over the place? Distributing candy bars? Do you think the US is wherever they are right now for the same reason?

This is not just a critique of the West per se, but imperialism in general.
 
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Ha !
I'm a Slav. A Serb even. The only times we are allowed to be the good guys in a work of fiction is when the bad guys are also Slavs/Serbs, Nazis or vampires.

well , Osprey has launched these series of books that do some service of combining tinhat variety of theories with some humour and offer them as a "parody" of their legitimate business . You wouldn't be surprised to learn that some SS Magic troopers had really bad times in the Balkans but still overcame all .
 
a fast day or what ? Wednesday saw yours idiotly ranting on no depositfiles and how datafiles was getting stuck for no good reason and what happens ? As proof that the world turns and turns , like paying no attention to yours idiotly ! It turns out the US Consulate is caught phoning an "imam" of the Congregation . Now , these jerks infiltrate anything , everything with the single exception of nothing , the normal hiearchy of the state and stuff does not matter and some guy is assigned as a leader . While Islam really allows a king to follow the Imam of the prayers , the imams of the Congregation are like puppet masters and their frequency of contact with the spiritual leader increases as the rank increases . The guy in question has been identified as the imam of the so called air force , currently still flying in the markings of the now extinct Turkish Air Force . A professor of religion and actually caught in the act of escaping from the airbase that acted as the nerve center of the coupists . Reportedly at 6 o'clock in the morning ; the jets were over the city whole night , bombing here and there ... Declares he was out to check the fields , 'cause he wants to buy some land and gets released , as you would really expect ... Now claimed to have carried the coup plans to the US , to the spiritual leader and returning with his blessings . Really big fish , also claimed to be a Party informant , naturally only by the Opposition . Sooo , 5 or 6 days later the US Consulate phones him to tell his visa to the US is revoked . As required by the US Law , which ı do not doubt that exists . So , the narrative is that evil Americans tell him that he shouldn't go to the airports 'cause the Police is lookin' for him . Don't you say is a phrase am getting tired to use . Yeah , the superb intelligence services have caught the evil in the act !

while this is probably some ploy of the ever winning New Turkey well versed in the crisis management with the visit of the US secretary of State to Ankara on Thursday , you know increasing the tension so that Washington would have to increase the offers to cool things down , it's equally suitable for stuff . Amazing for such high ranking a banker to be dumb enough to be in the US when like the whole world knows the US is threatening to use courts to force the New Turkey to give more to the 'stan . Especially after the "fact" that he is on tape advising an Iranian businessman in the US jails for stuff . Like his papers for 50 000 tons of merchandize would really look funny if the ship he hired was just of 5 000 tons capacity . He has the brains to break the US embargoes against Iran and he just goes to America , where he now looks forward to 50 years in prison . The feeling is the guy surrendered to the Americans , for a lenient term he will rat on anyone the US wants to be ratted on . Apparently the Americans have "mistakenly" identified the guy's immediate superior as an informant . How lovely that the US is pulling an Al Capone ... you know watching all the embargo breaking for years and making weak noises , as if wanting people to beleve that they could never be caught . And this is really a pro-Congregation move , for when they fell out with the Party (their brothers in the Counter-Revolution) they released the tapes and the lot , in an effort to arrest a son of the PM with corruption charges . If it proves America is with the Congregation , it will like unite the country , for stuff .


also can be a boost for the intelligence service , which has been like ... hard to choose a word , now . These guys go to Germany and ask their colleagues to lend a hand in the fight against the coup . Sure , and the hand picked chief gives the German counterpart a list of people and institutions . One of them is the German MP who leads the Turkish-German friendship group in the Reichstag or whatever . The Germans leak this after a full day of engineering fury over how Turkey have been spying in Germany against German laws and that people do not even do not know the external spying agency of Germany can not be involved in internal affairs . You know , it is extremely good copy in Turkey to give the adresses of the enemies of Turkey when the host country denies harbouring enemies of Turkey . Incompetent ? Who , the New Turkey ? The greatest victory of A-K-P is that nobody fears the Turks anymore , something you should have never known to be an amazing feat ... And naturally , the Swedes top it . Presumably having the best blondes , they probably think they will be the target of the almost racists in their bid to topple evil monarchies . So their state radio releases a recorded phone conversation between a guy who claims to know the Last Prime Minister and a guy who is presumably a Congregation member . The former asks the latter to become an informant or the latter's wife in Turkey might suffer . Allow me to remind that Congregation has always recorded anything , to use as evidence , fake evidence and blackmail material .

why no poll in this thread on which EU country has the best blondes ? We would know who would get some Democracy after a solid YES ... Now that polling companies report YES gaining ground , no doubt after spectacular compliance shown , over places like Kerkük .

and the Voice of Russia hardly fails ; the hour of opposition is on the air and some guy tells the Germans are looking at different options for Incirlik . You know , they heroically sending 8 Tornados against silly rants of people you might be familiar with , despite the British bases on Cyprus being the best place , with RAF having the infrastructure for more than 30 years . Deutchen Raus preceded their arrival ; their existance was scandal prone with the German Defence Minister declaring they would teach stuff to Turks in one of those endless "fights" that prove the heroic gloriousness of New Turkey . And most thread worthy , the Germans were right according to the wording on the paper . Those planes are recon types , checking on ISIL . They also overfly Kurdish held / occupied areas . Data pertaining to the beardies flow without problems , we are NATO allies and partners in the war against terror . When queried about the gods of war , the Germans eat their tongues . Our country , our base , our people to get them out if they have to hit the silk , despite the glorious existance of all those Fritzies around and they ask who we are ? Deals are always reminded and everybody follows the rules ; it's always us that has to be flexible . Such loveliness when our recon types either get shot down or crash or barred from the area by the Russians and it must have satisfied the Germans greatly . For their Constitution unjustly barred them from being in Incirlik to cover the extremely bloody 1990s . Watching the peaceful , the finest of the mankind Kurds grow and hiding it from the evil scum of the world and telling them that they do not have to , you know , work with Turks . They say they may send their planes elsewhere , including Yemen . Good riddance , ı say , we can shoot them down properly , instead of smashing them under tank tracks . Just don't forget to take Americans with you . And this is where the software of the radio acts up . It regularly does so , when it gets evermore lovesome . ı heard it , when the guest re-stressed 8 locations .

nobody has ever banned Germans from liking the Kurds , nothing on paper and the like to outlaw weapon deliveries , quite a bit of it stocked to kill Turks when the time comes . But surely Berlin was briefed on how Turks still remember that the Arabs were promised an Arab Kingdom , with lands carved out of the Ottomans , by the Kaiser's smartest as we were allies like a century back ? "Americans are bombing ISIL to win the hearts and minds of the Kurds, but we can't with our truncated budgets. Yet, we must sell all those cars to the Kurds when they start selling oil. So let's go and insult Turks publicly" was not that a bright idea? And by the way , how many Kurds ever heard of that ? That p_mping Incirlik is awesomely hated in places might well be a specialist idea not fit for the august ears of Merkel , but really no warning that stuff is like a dam and dams burst ?
 
The green belt doctrine against the USSR is not a conspiracy theory, but an actual policy carried out by the CIA.

Failed or failing by whose standards? Yours? Failed by whose weapons? Whose puppets in power? Even so what kind of exceptionalist narcissism would prompt another capitalistic power to "unfail" these states? Do you think the rest of the world is naive or blind? If it is about saving the people, there are so many different ways of achieving that - like accepting refugees, building safe zones, providing healthcare services, and removing bloodthirsty warlords, maintaining order, and then leaving. Is there really a need to come in and take other people's stuff? Pardon me, that is, to bring "stability"?

England has been involved in some kind of military conflict within 90% of the entire planet's landmass, by country. Just what do you think you were doing all over the place? Distributing candy bars? Do you think the US is wherever they are right now for the same reason?

This is not just a critique of the West per se, but imperialism in general.

I'm a bit at a loss what you are trying to argue here - or what it has to do with my post. Hence, I've no clue what to comment - or why you quoted my post here even..
 
I'm a bit at a loss what you are trying to argue here - or what it has to do with my post. Hence, I've no clue what to comment - or why you quoted my post here even..
My bad, I thought you were the Western strawman. :)

No really, my post is about your post. You just need to dig a little to understand what it is that I am talking about. For instance, figure out who armed the mujahideen against the USSR in the Afghan wars. How that helped create the Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc. The Iraq war comes later, and builds upon this.

Also, I think you still believe "stability" is a good thing for the nations that are being made "stable". It is kind of a code word used by imperial powers meaning "ready for plunder" or "one of ours".
 
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This is not just a critique of the West per se, but imperialism in general.

America been declining, the Broken election system, Broken for profit media which has resulted deranged and idiotic policies and shooting itself in the foot
Meanwhile we have the specture of Communism, which is so much better with its mass starvation and foreign policies.

If its any consolation better a US Hyperpower then Russia Hyperpower.
 
In response to both previous posts: I don't adhere to conspiracy theories. Politicians are far less intelligent than they are given credit for. (Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of conspiracies, but they usually simply fail.)
 
For one, the USSR was already gone, and Iraq was actually a western partner before Bush Jr decided on wrecking the country, following 9/11 (again, no Soviet, or even Russian, connection there).

Small correction: Iraq ceased being a western partner after the first Gulf War in 1990-1991 under Bush Sr.
 
Small correction to the small correction: Iraq ceased being a western partner after it invaded Kuwait.
 
Small correction to the small correction: Iraq ceased being a western partner after it invaded Kuwait.

They likely first asked the US if they can be allowed to do it. I suppose the US lied ^^
(previously, Iraq was the US proxy, in the Iraq-Iran decade-lasting war).
 
Saddam quite obviously was inquiring whether or not he has blank cheque for invasion. More interesting is the question whether Glaspie set him up.
 
"We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts"
(Note: Saddam was probably going to invade either way. But saying that probably didn't help)

Then why didnt Saddam retreat in the face of Western and UN demands to withdraw ?
Even as the West built up its coalition and massed its armies to pressure Saddam, it would have been sufficent face saving to withdraw without losing too much face.
Its not like Iraq just fought a costly Iran war and well came away with nothing to show for it
 
Saddam's ego wouldn't allow him to conceive the possibility of defeat.
 
Saddam's ego wouldn't allow him to conceive the possibility of defeat.

1) Point one is if US influence was such that it, Saddam invasion of Kuwait was the US fault, then the US demands for Saddam to withdraw Saddam should have also complied
2) As the US air campaign started, it was clear that technically differance in military capability there could be only one result. Though given the delusional Iraq propaganda minister Saddam had surrounded himself sycophants
3) Iam thinking that maybe Saddam had hoped to inflicted enough losses to make the campaign costly enough that the US would settle for a negosiated settlement. Trading 10:1 100:1 1000:1 but for hes conscript soldiers just the air campaign had knocked the will to fight.
 
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Small correction to the small correction: Iraq ceased being a western partner after it invaded Kuwait.

I consider that invasion part of the first Gulf War since it was the direct cause that led to the US-led coalition military action.
 
I consider that invasion part of the first Gulf War since it was the direct cause that led to the US-led coalition military action.

I agree with you, but to a great many homers it isn't a war until USA #1 gets involved.
 
In response to both previous posts: I don't adhere to conspiracy theories. Politicians are far less intelligent than they are given credit for. (Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of conspiracies, but they usually simply fail.)
I think you may have been right if it were indeed politicians cooking up the conspiracies. I don't think it is fair to assume the politicians (in office) have a final, absolute, or unhindered say on anything that concerns the interests of various entities with the power to influence policymaking. This includes powerful individuals, corporations, their lobbyists, as well as powerful groups within the state itself (CIA, the Pentagon, etc. for the U.S.). For USSR, this would be the ruling caste of the Communist Party, army generals, and the KGB.
 
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I agree with you, but to a great many homers it isn't a war until USA #1 gets involved.

Yeah, I never understood that logic. I mean, saying Iraq's invasion of Kuwait wasn't part of the first Gulf War would be like saying Germany's invasion of Poland wasn't part of World War II.
 
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