General News Regarding China & Hong Kong

No, more like they are Nazi Germany and we shouldn't give their government a platform to attempt to minimize, downplay, and spin the actual atrocities they are committing..
There's no doubt that it is an authoritarian regime, but I want to make a point that not every protest movement against authoritarian regimes are noble in nature. We have plenty of failed revolutions in history to tell us that bad people can feature prominently among the oppressed too.
The right way to evaluate a conflict is to judge by the nature of the actions taken and not who the participants are.
 
Take two people, American liberal and ultra-conservative. Discuss politics with them and learn their worldview. You'll get completely different picture from each one of them despite both have no reason to lie to you.
That's also unfortunately the case in Hong Kong right now. The perspective of the events can completely change depending on what newspaper you buy.

What's troubling with these protests though is that it's not possible to disagree respectfully anymore and extreme mental gymnastics are used to spin away inconvenient facts.
 
The protesters are flying the American and British flags. Yet in Portland we see Antifa fly the Chinese flag. I propose a swap.

This is a great idea
I suggest we start with the Russian Lover in the White house and deport him to Putin land.
Or North Korea since hes is "In LOVE" with little rocket man
 
That stretches credibility.
I'm going to go with doctored photos on the internet.

Funny thing about Antifa is they use the 3 arrows symbol a lot. It's the symbol used by pre-WW2 German moderates who opposed both Nazis and communist Germans at the time. One arrow for monarchy, one for fascism, one for communism, three ideologies they oppose.
 
I'm going to go with doctored photos on the internet.

Funny thing about Antifa is they use the 3 arrows symbol a lot. It's the symbol used by pre-WW2 German moderates who opposed both Nazis and communist Germans at the time. One arrow for monarchy, one for fascism, one for communism, three ideologies they oppose.

Yea but contemporary Antifa folks tend to be the "they killed Rosa! we'll never forgive them" types
 
*squints* ahhh, it's red with a yellow thing, that's good enough
For what it's worth, I'd readily accept that you might see a Chinese flag at an anti-fascist protest. (I've seen weirder flags at anti-fascist protests.) It's the specific conjunction of "Chinese flag" and "Antifa" that throws me. The suspicious little voice in my head suggests that the right want "Antifa" to simultaneously describe street-fighting insurrectopunk militants and anyone who ever said "Hitler was a bad dude" without adding "but", so that every characteristic of the former can be attributed to the latter, and the latter to the former.
 
:bump:

When all you have is a hammer…

Hong Kong rocked as protester is shot in torso during violent clashes on China National Day rally.
‘Police think they are above the law’: Outrage after Hong Kong protester shot in the torso as tens of thousands take to streets

‘They are really scared of losing face on the National Day, so we want to let them know that we are going to fight for what we want and we are not scared’, says one protester

Activists have vowed to fight on after a man was shot with a live round by police during violent clashes in Hong Kong, which saw tens of thousands of protesters take to the streets on China’s National Day.

The anti-government demonstrators, the majority of whom remain peaceful, set out to disrupt the 70th anniversary of communist rule in China, handing out fliers that called the event a “day of mourning” and singing the protest song “Glory to Hong Kong”.

But events took a violent turn after an officer fired a live round directly at a protester, the first such incident during four months of escalating violence on both sides.

The 18-year-old was shot in the torso at close range in the Tsuen Wan district. “Send me to hospital, my chest is hurting. I need to go to hospital,” the injured teenager said in videos shared by local media.

Police commissioner Stephen Lo, said: “The officer was under attack, his life was threatened. He made a very quick decision and shot the assailant. I believe it was his best judgement at the time.”

Mr Lo said the protester was conscious when he was taken to hospital. Local media outlet Apple Daily reported that he remained in a critical condition.

In total, 66 people were injured and more than 180 arrested, according to the South China Morning Post.

Dominic Raab, the UK foreign secretary, condemned the use of live rounds, saying that “whilst there is no excuse for violence, the use of live ammunition is disproportionate, and only risks inflaming the situation”.

Earlier in the day, tens of thousands attended a march on Hong Kong Island, defying a police ban and risking arrest for participating in an unauthorised assembly. Demonstrators dressed in black chanted the now-enshrined protest anthems of “fight for freedom! Stand with Hong Kong!” and “Hong Kong add oil!” – a Hong Kong saying akin to “Keep going!”, as they marched in the sweltering heat of the day.

US and British flags waved above the crowds, without what appeared to be a single Chinese flag in sight.

A 29-year-old protester named Tse, who attended the march until he was tear gassed during dispersal operations in the upscale shopping district of Causeway Bay, said that by protesting on National Day, demonstrators intended to “embarrass the Chinese Communist Party” while garnering international attention.

“They are really scared of losing face on the National Day, so we want to let them know that we are going to fight for what we want and we are not scared of any violent means of suppressing us and our ideas. This is another way for us to express and magnify what we are fighting for.”

Twenty five public transport stations were closed throughout the day and dozens of shopping malls announced they would be closed after the police issued a statement on Monday warning of violent acts planned for National Day.

Smaller rallies were held in six districts, in front of government offices, temples and playgrounds. Clashes began early in the day in Tuen Mun district, when protesters threw bricks and other random objects at officers who responded with tear gas and water cannons.

The police posted images of an officer injured by corrosive liquid that they say “rioters” threw during the clash in Tuen Mun.

Local broadcaster TVB said that one of its reporters sustained similar injuries.

In other districts, protesters blocked major roads and formed defensive lines with umbrellas and metal street railings that they connected with zip ties. Some protesters armed themselves with hiking sticks and stalks of bamboo.

In San Po Kong district, where protesters set small fires in the street, a university student named Truman, who was not taking part in the protests, said that an officer pointed his shotgun directly at him and others after they jeered at police from an elevated footbridge.

“We had nothing but our words,” he said. “For the police to respond that way to unarmed people, it makes me feel that they think they are above the law, that they have no guidelines anymore.”

As clashes continued to escalate into the night, multiple media companies, including local broadcaster RTHK and the South China Morning Post, pulled reporters from the streets as tear gas and rubber bullets were employed.

Many arrests were carried out violently as protesters set fires and threw petrol bombs in neighbourhoods on the peninsular side of the territory after Hong Kong Island protest sights were largely cleared by riot police.

The citywide protests initially broke out in June over a controversial bill that would have allowed extraditions to China.

The bill has since been withdrawn, but protesters’ demands have grown to include an independent inquiry into police violence and electoral reforms.

After more than a century as a British colony, Hong Kong was returned to China in 1997. The semi-autonomous territory was assured a high degree of autonomy until 2047 but many residents fear that basic rights and freedoms enshrined in the city’s constitution are under threat.

The clashes in Hong Kong contrasted with anniversary celebrations in Beijing, which included a parade showcasing the country’s military might.

Among those attending was Hong Kong chief executive Carrie Lam, who demonstrators have repeatedly called on to resign due to her failure to handle the crisis.

Hong Kong chief secretary Matthew Cheung told hundreds of guests at a reception that the city has become “unrecognisable” due to the violence.​

also @red_elk I'll have to dig up a post of yours I never answered
 
The fascists in my country (not China) is now advocating for shooting of protesters on the basis that they've turned violent. This sentiment is not uncommon in this part of the world.

Extremist Confucianism should also be considered an evil ideology.
 
The fascists in my country (not China) is now advocating for shooting of protesters on the basis that they've turned violent. This sentiment is not uncommon in this part of the world.

Extremist Confucianism should also be considered an evil ideology.
Its not just your part of the world. My comment was sarcastic. It's all over.
 
I watched a 4-part documentary on the world's busiest cities last night and the first episode was on Hong Kong. The documentary came out around 2015 and it mentioned that there was severe protests in 2014. It looks like things haven't changed much since then, or rather, the Chinese have tightened their grip further on the city. That grip featured pretty heavily in the documentary as they pointed out again and again how unhappy the people were that China was voided the various aspects of the handover agreement from '97.

They also talked about the extreme inequality the city is struggling with. They showed an illegal apartment flat where the owner had converted all of the spaces into tiny, 6-foot long bunks with sliding doors. One guy had lived in that bunk for 3 years and it cost about $200 a month just to rent that tiny space. He had no ability to cook and no storage for his things outside of his bunk space. It really made me appreciate what I have in my life, even when I was dirt poor, I never had it that bad. They also showed how live-in maids take over underpasses and parks every Sunday. They only get one day off and at best are given a tiny bedroom in their master's space to live in or they have to sleep on the floor. So when they get Sunday off, they all gather and hang out in public spaces just to be able to spread out a bit with their friends as they have no ability to have someone over to hang out where they work/live. It was all extremely sad.
 
They also showed how live-in maids take over underpasses and parks every Sunday. They only get one day off and at best are given a tiny bedroom in their master's space to live in or they have to sleep on the floor. So when they get Sunday off, they all gather and hang out in public spaces just to be able to spread out a bit with their friends as they have no ability to have someone over to hang out where they work/live. It was all extremely sad.

This is common in this part of the world too. It's not unique to Hong Kong.

Chinese people really suck at the human rights thing.
 
So is China to blame for HK's economic problems while simultaneously trying to completely change their way of life?
Are we to believe the live-in workers are the ones out on the street protesting?
 
OMG what kind of authoritarian government would allow police to fire live rounds at unarmed citizens? China should be soundly denounced for that! What kind of defense is "the officer feared for his life and had to think quickly."? I mean, crazy right?
The man in question (still in hospital) has been charged with assaulting an officer.


Which ties into what I wanted to tell red_elk. There's people posting news articles about a state practising genocidal, culturicidal, terroristic practices against its people. You do not address the issue but instead point out that a different publication has published false information regarding another subject. This smacks of a) what-about-ism and b) shooting the messenger, trying to discredit the entire press with a pars pro toto attack. Your actual point might have been something else, but that is what you managed to convey.
 
Extremist Confucianism should also be considered an evil ideology.
The evils of religious extremism are not limited to eastern religions. :)
 
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