Hoop Thrower's Tehuelche - Maria the Elder for VP

Thank you @SolutionIt for your return, especially since you found bugs that I didn't see.
First of all, can you tell me which version of VP you play with, I tested it a lot with 12-1-3 but not with the following hotfixes.

I did encounter a bug and an annoying quirk with having workers automated though. My UIs through this civ didn't get another extra random yield starting at the medieval era and automated workers like to destroy a previously created Aiken to replace it with a camp or pasture, ruining the extra yields earned.
I've never played civ with automated workers, hence my ignorance. It is indeed a problem. I need to see the Improvements_flavors, there's surely something to do with it.
For the problem of the absence of UI yield random, I will retest but I never encountered this problem hence my question on the version of the game) :confused:

Also it doesn't seem like Aikens are affected by the social policy available through Piety that affects pastures? Was disappointed to not get even more ridiculous gold yields after adopting the policy. EDIT: Should take a look into rationalism as well or imperialism. I know there's another policy in those that affect camps hiding in there,
Are you sure ?
The belief God of the Open Sky (like the belief goddess hunt) must affect Aiken, and in fact in all my games, this was the case.
Spoiler God of the open sky :
upload_2021-2-10_19-6-55.png

upload_2021-2-10_19-9-49.png


Normally, I added text directly to beliefs and buildings that also affect Aiken. The text did not appear?
but indeed I realize that I forgot Serfdom in Fealty and Exploitation in Imperialism, thank you.

If I recall correctly though the Ducal stable also added extra yields to cows and sheep though right? Doesn't seem to be the case with the Uorkenk but that'd be understandable since it also improves any resources tied to camps. I don't know if it improved the appropriate luxury resources tied to camps though. I wasn't paying much attention to it.
Uorkenk take advantage of bonuses on camps and pastures

Spoiler Uorkenk :
upload_2021-2-10_19-17-18.png


Anyway only real criticism I have is with the Unique Improvement itself. I don't recall it improving its yields at any technologies, and the civilopedia page on it doesn't seem to suggest it does that.
I'm so sorry you weren't able to take advantage of the UI. For me everything works fine but if you give me your VP version, I will test more. For civilopedia, I will have to complete the informations.

Random yields also seem off as a choice, why not just extra tourism every era since creation?
This is a good suggestion, I didn't want to distort the original mod too much and I admit, I like the idea of yield random which sticks quite well to the life in small semi-nomadic clans (therefore with different paths) of the Tehuelches. I'll think about it, especially if I can't figure out where the problems you encountered are coming from.
 
Thank you @SolutionIt for your return, especially since you found bugs that I didn't see.
First of all, can you tell me which version of VP you play with, I tested it a lot with 12-1-3 but not with the following hotfixes.


I've never played civ with automated workers, hence my ignorance. It is indeed a problem. I need to see the Improvements_flavors, there's surely something to do with it.
For the problem of the absence of UI yield random, I will retest but I never encountered this problem hence my question on the version of the game) :confused:


Are you sure ?
The belief God of the Open Sky (like the belief goddess hunt) must affect Aiken, and in fact in all my games, this was the case.
Spoiler God of the open sky :


Normally, I added text directly to beliefs and buildings that also affect Aiken. The text did not appear?
but indeed I realize that I forgot Serfdom in Fealty and Exploitation in Imperialism, thank you.


Uorkenk take advantage of bonuses on camps and pastures

Spoiler Uorkenk :



I'm so sorry you weren't able to take advantage of the UI. For me everything works fine but if you give me your VP version, I will test more. For civilopedia, I will have to complete the informations.


This is a good suggestion, I didn't want to distort the original mod too much and I admit, I like the idea of yield random which sticks quite well to the life in small semi-nomadic clans (therefore with different paths) of the Tehuelches. I'll think about it, especially if I can't figure out where the problems you encountered are coming from.

Yeah the pantheon beliefs (and cathedral) work fine but the social policies didn't. I'm on the newest version of the beta Vox Populi at the moment so that might be why the random yields aren't working. Otherwise everything else seems to work as intended. I don't think this civ will be too op but that remains to be seen.

I know that its easy to aggressively settle with them early without happiness consequences so they do that better than Polynesia for sure as a comparison, but Polynesia can settle cities out of other civ's reach as well. If I'm not mistaken the yields on tourism also add 1 happiness, gold, and science for each point right? I doubt it'd be too strong since the science yields get killed off by the Modern Era.
 
I'm on the newest version of the beta Vox Populi at the moment so that might be why the random yields aren't working.
OK, It is possibly the difference, I will test.

I don't think this civ will be too op but that remains to be seen.
I would like to add a limitation, the appearance of the horse resource only after the circumnavigation of the world but I have not yet looked for how and if it is possible.

I know that its easy to aggressively settle with them early without happiness consequences
Yes, before the arrival of the Mapuches and the Europeans, the Tehuelches had an immense territory for a long time.

If I'm not mistaken the yields on tourism also add 1 happiness, gold, and science for each point right?
Yes, one for one but limited by the population.
 
I'm on the newest version of the beta Vox Populi at the moment so that might be why the random yields aren't working.
In fact the last beta version works very well, it is version 12-1-3 which is bugged with the passing of the eras (the lua function is carried out twice). Normally this is fixed and should work with both versions.
 
It does get a little spammy in the right side notification area with the notifications on the turns you change era as you get one after another of the permanent improvement bonuses. It doesn't compact like other similar notifications does, where it's just one icon with multiple posts in it for each one that you can just click thru.

It's not that it matters that much in the early game but I suspect that in late game it's going to a be a lot of notifications. As I left the ancient era I had already constructed 14 aikens. Yes I did prolong it a bit by partially researching things just so I wouldn't change era so I could finish a few more aikens in progress before it tipped over to the new era, top Aiken city had four aikens so far.

Right, entering the third era and the list is quite long. It's not like you have to click thru them all you can just pass turn but it's nice to see what you got. Perhaps there would/should be some kind of summary somehow. Like you gained X gold, Y culture, Z tourism etc. Exactly which went to which tile might not matter all that much since they'll all be worked no matter what since they are just that good as tiles.

It becomes a bit hard to plan the aikens as the Uorkenk spawns another horse resource, sometimes it's a nice surprise but it's never wrong so to speak. But it's not like you want to remove a previously built aiken due to the spawnage.

When the Uorkenk spawns a horse unit, or multiples of them on the same turn, those notifications are compacted into a single icon on the right hand side. So perhaps use that for the era change notifications of the unique yield upgrades? It would be a lot less spammy, or feel. Does it always spawn 2 horses? From the once I have seen so far it seems to always be two of them.

Aikens that are pillaged do get an upgrade at the era change, which is nice.

Promotion Shome (Bolas): It reduces the :c5moves: Movement of its target by 2 if it's a non-motorized land unit for one turn (minimum move of 1)

I'm not sure this is working or working how I interpret it. It's supposed to lower movement, in steps of 2 down to a minimum of one. The thing is if the unit has four movement it just applies once, taking it down to two. If you shot it again it doesn't deduct anything. It says -0 movement or something such. If it can't do -2 movement, perhaps check if it can do -1 movement and still leave the target enemy unit with one movement point left? It appears that sometimes it does say -1 movement, but sometimes it doesn't even tho there should be movement points to deduct.

Also then for units with 2 movement points such as most units it does nothing. It applies the debuff (you see the red double arrow icon on them) but it does absolutely nothing. They still have two movement points, judging from their movements that very turn and what is indicated on them in their tooltip. I'm not entirely sure but they still both move and attack from what I can tell on a lot of turns. I was wondering why my units kept taking hit and the unit was also moving even tho it had the debuff. The only conclusion is that they still have all their movement points available to them, I guess they could take fractional movements on a road sometimes and then still have a fraction point left to attack with. But it looks weird sometimes in areas that doesn't have any roads or any kind of similar fast movement abilities or promotions.

This promotion if this doesn't bring down melee units to 1 movement point, so they most often have to chose between moving or attacking, is kind of worthless really. Then it becomes super situational and is sort of only good against scouts and horse units. Melee are or would then be immune due to their "low" or standard movement. But I don't think it's the case but it seems weird and that this only applies sometimes versus some units.

Is it when I upgraded the Aukenk archers to composite bowmen/xbow and later that they started to -1 on movement from melee, but they didn't do that before. I don't think I ever saw that with the Aukenk.
 
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Hello Iooorg, Thank you for taking an interest in this civilization and testing it.

It does get a little spammy in the right side notification area with the notifications on the turns you change era as you get one after another of the permanent improvement bonuses. It doesn't compact like other similar notifications does, where it's just one icon with multiple posts in it for each one that you can just click thru.
I agree to spam, but I haven't found any better yet. I don't know how to compact the messages.

Perhaps there would/should be some kind of summary somehow. Like you gained X gold, Y culture, Z tourism etc. Exactly which went to which tile might not matter all that much since they'll all be worked no matter what since they are just that good as tiles.
If I don't find how to compact, this is a good suggestion :thumbsup:.

When the Uorkenk spawns a horse unit, or multiples of them on the same turn, those notifications are compacted into a single icon on the right hand side. So perhaps use that for the era change notifications of the unique yield upgrades? It would be a lot less spammy, or feel.
A priori, I use the same system except for the type of notification, I have to take a better look at how it works.

I'm not sure this is working or working how I interpret it. It's supposed to lower movement, in steps of 2 down to a minimum of one. The thing is if the unit has four movement it just applies once, taking it down to two. If you shot it again it doesn't deduct anything. It says -0 movement or something such. If it can't do -2 movement, perhaps check if it can do -1 movement and still leave the target enemy unit with one movement point left? It appears that sometimes it does say -1 movement, but sometimes it doesn't even tho there should be movement points to deduct.

Also then for units with 2 movement points such as most units it does nothing. It applies the debuff (you see the red double arrow icon on them) but it does absolutely nothing. They still have two movement points, judging from their movements that very turn and what is indicated on them in their tooltip. I'm not entirely sure but they still both move and attack from what I can tell on a lot of turns. I was wondering why my units kept taking hit and the unit was also moving even tho it had the debuff. The only conclusion is that they still have all their movement points available to them, I guess they could take fractional movements on a road sometimes and then still have a fraction point left to attack with. But it looks weird sometimes in areas that doesn't have any roads or any kind of similar fast movement abilities or promotions.

This promotion if this doesn't bring down melee units to 1 movement point, so they most often have to chose between moving or attacking, is kind of worthless really. Then it becomes super situational and is sort of only good against scouts and horse units. Melee are or would then be immune due to their "low" or standard movement. But I don't think it's the case but it seems weird and that this only applies sometimes versus some units.
In my memory, this worked (except for units that have 4 or more movement, I only apply -2).
I will look into the problem, and also apply your idea of reducing down to 1 even units that have more than 3 if they are hit multiple times :).
 
In my memory, this worked (except for units that have 4 or more movement, I only apply -2).
I will look into the problem, and also apply your idea of reducing down to 1 even units that have more than 3 if they are hit multiple times :).

This one is a bit weird and I can't guarantee that I am somehow correct on this one. But it seems that they sometimes retain all their movement/actions. As I was editing my previous post I think you responded to it. So it might not have been included but I don't think I started to see the -1 until I had upgraded to composite bows and/or crossbows. It never, as far as I can recall, happened when they where just Aukenk archers.

Perhaps try for a -2 movement deduction, if that can't be done then go test for a -1? Or if one can check for if the debuff is present then go for -1 attempts?


I'm still a few techs away from the Waike so I have nothing to tell about them yet.

Also possibly missed in the edit/response above. Does the Uorkenk always spawn 2 horses? Every single one of mine so far have spawned 2 horses, it says it spawns a horse resource but I imagined it would a random amount of horses on or in said resource. Perhaps it's as low as it goes. Don't think I have seen any 1 horse tiles in the game yet.
 
Also possibly missed in the edit/response above. Does the Uorkenk always spawn 2 horses? Every single one of mine so far have spawned 2 horses, it says it spawns a horse resource but I imagined it would a random amount of horses on or in said resource. Perhaps it's as low as it goes. Don't think I have seen any 1 horse tiles in the game yet.
The code I wrote still produces two horses, I made this choice because eventually I think I would use the SQL function that exists now for that and the number is fixed with it.
 
Something called the "DMS: Tehuelche science dummy" was destroyed due to events, I think it was a flood event. That probably shouldn't be an option for destruction since you can't rebuild it.

civ5-teu-dummy.png

Also worth noteing that an Agribusiness works on the Aiken built on a horse, Aiken built on deer, and possibly other things to I would assume. This was just the once I made note of as it gained 2 production and 2 gold even tho it's not really a farm or a pasture. The horse could be questionable but a deer in a forest probably isn't. Isn't it technically a special camp? I guess it's both since it says it draws the benefits of both pastures and camps. It's just a bit odd, or mostly I guess overlooked since the ingame tooltips doesn't reflect it very well.

So the Aiken appears to be sort of like a farm/pasture/camp in one, or it draws benefits from all things that modify them. As noted in the description on the first page.

Something kind of odd is happening with the upgraded Aukenk (they are now gatling guns). When they attack a city the "Shome" debuff gets applied to some unit that just happen to be next to, or perhaps I should say close to, the city as it's a tile away from the city.

civ5-teu-shome.png civ5-teu-shome2.png

In this case the Gatling guns are in range of Wellington (they have range 3). But the unit then two tiles away from the city next to the Venice border keps getting the shome debuff. He wasn't in the city as guard or anything and he is very much out of range of the guns. Interestingly the Fusilier inside the city guarding it doesn't get the Shome debuff when I shot the city. It sort of just travels to some other unit in range. The fusilier next to the one getting the shome debuff doesn't get any debuffs either, even tho they are at the same range from the guns, or most of them.

Also the "Shome" doesn't appear to get applied to applicable units (when they are on land) that are embarked (in the water) either. I guess they count them as boats then instead of land units or something such.
 
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Something called the "DMS: Tehuelche science dummy" was destroyed due to events, I think it was a flood event. That probably shouldn't be an option for destruction since you can't rebuild it.
The existence of the building is tested every turn so it will exist again the next turn. But indeed, the message is not terrible. It's a know problem but I don't know how to deal with it or even if it's possible (other than the solution to test it every turn).
Another solution is to use the API of @InkAxis pCity:ChangeYieldFromTraits() but I only really understood it recently thanks to its explanations and I now have to include it in my mods as often as possible.

Also worth noteing that an Agribusiness works on the Aiken built on a horse, Aiken built on deer, and possibly other things to I would assume. This was just the once I made note of as it gained 2 production and 2 gold even tho it's not really a farm or a pasture. The horse could be questionable but a deer in a forest probably isn't. Isn't it technically a special camp? I guess it's both since it says it draws the benefits of both pastures and camps. It's just a bit odd, or mostly I guess overlooked since the ingame tooltips doesn't reflect it very well.

So the Aiken appears to be sort of like a farm/pasture/camp in one, or it draws benefits from all things that modify them. As noted in the description on the first page.
Aiken is a camp/pasture improvement, it is affected and affects everything that affects either of these Improvement (except for forgetting on my part). I added the mention "Aiken has the same bonus as original improvement." in the texts but indeed, I forgot the agribusiness while I thought of Andelsbevægelse :crazyeye:.
Thank you, I'correct this.

Something kind of odd is happening with the upgraded Aukenk (they are now gatling guns). When they attack a city the "Shome" debuff gets applied to some unit that just happen to be next to, or perhaps I should say close to, the city as it's a tile away from the city.
OK, I will rework the function anyway but some things are not my fault, either the city is disrupting the code, or the units of the city states are switched regularly for placement issues.

Also the "Shome" doesn't appear to get applied to applicable units (when they are on land) that are embarked (in the water) either. I guess they count them as boats then instead of land units or something such.
Yes, by the way the 3D icon shows a ship, not a land unit swimming ;).

Thank you very much for the bug reports, it greatly helps to correct and make the mod more functional :thumbsup:.

EDIT : Agribusiness have the notification, normally.
 
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OK, I will rework the function anyway but some things are not my fault, either the city is disrupting the code, or the units of the city states are switched regularly for placement issues.
I'm reasonably sure that isn't it. Since the debuff is applied directly on your turn when you fire you can see the little scrolling combat text just go -1 movement in red on the unit even when I shot at the city. It gets the debuff etc. So I guess it's something wonky with garrisons, it's odd that it's just picking some unit two tiles off in this case tho. But who knows I guess it's like some of the other quirks such as if the city health is 0 and there is a garrison and you shot at it with a ranged unit your units don't get XP etc. Standard wonkyness.

Those things might have been in the tooltips etc, I do admit that I don't really read the tooltips all to often anymore. It's sort of "I know what this does ..." and then I don't pay it much attention, until I do. Sort of like I didn't really read the full front page description here either that said it was a camp/pasture thing until way after I had already noted that this was odd and I was getting yields the tile shouldn't have. Then while looking around for info I sort of noted it. Ooops!

I guess I sort of expected the horses I built Aikens on to get like pasture bonuses. It was more the Deer in the forests I didn't think would get them and was sort of wondering what was happening. It was contrary to the normal yield gains.

About the destruction of the dummy. Could you classify the dummy building as say a national wonder or something such? I don't think they can be destroyed by events, only by conquest.

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I found a save within a turn of when I first noted the debuff/garrison thing, you could play around with a bit there if you like or if you can gain some insight into the issue there.
 

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About the destruction of the dummy. Could you classify the dummy building as say a national wonder or something such? I don't think they can be destroyed by events, only by conquest.
There are no differences in the SQL tables that go in this direction. On the other hand, I just saw that I did not activate the NukeImmune, not on that there is a relation between a destruction by nuclear bomb and by event but I will try.

I found a save within a turn of when I first noted the debuff/garrison thing, you could play around with a bit there if you like or if you can gain some insight into the issue there.
Thanks, I'll test (latest version of civ?)
 
There are no differences in the SQL tables that go in this direction. On the other hand, I just saw that I did not activate the NukeImmune, not on that there is a relation between a destruction by nuclear bomb and by event but I will try.

I seem to recall there was another mod civ that had some unique thing where you stole buildings from them and I think the solution to an issue there was to make it a national wonder (or was it the nukeimmune thing) instead as they couldn't be stolen or nuked. I guess one could try. Otherwise as noted previously if it doesn't matter much it is just one of those things that look a little weird but doesn't really have any permanency if it gets rebuilt again next turn without the player knowing about it.

Thanks, I'll test (latest version of civ?)

Yes, It should be 1.3.4 and I think it is the latest version of 3&4 unique component. The island in the screenshot is a little cluster of islands just west of my main island.
 
Another dummy building that can be destroyed by events (hurricane I think it was). I assume that works the same as the other dummies.
civ5-vp-teh-dummy2.png
 
I seem to recall there was another mod civ that had some unique thing where you stole buildings from them and I think the solution to an issue there was to make it a national wonder (or was it the nukeimmune thing) instead as they couldn't be stolen or nuked. I guess one could try. Otherwise as noted previously if it doesn't matter much it is just one of those things that look a little weird but doesn't really have any permanency if it gets rebuilt again next turn without the player knowing about it.
Another dummy building that can be destroyed by events (hurricane I think it was). I assume that works the same as the other dummies.
I'm going to dig into this idea of a National Building, it's not the NukeImmune because the Dummy Uorkenk has it. And for it, it's important that he does not disappear. It is a marker to say that the horses have already appeared for the construction of the Uorkenk in this city.
 
I'm going to dig into this idea of a National Building, it's not the NukeImmune because the Dummy Uorkenk has it. And for it, it's important that he does not disappear. It is a marker to say that the horses have already appeared for the construction of the Uorkenk in this city.

I was sort of wondering that when I saw it. Hmm I wonder if I can get another horse spawn then. But you couldn't sell the Uorkenk I think, or I forgot to check cause the city also went into distress due to the event for a couple of turns and I just forgot to check. If not you could just sell it, if an option, rebuild and spawn another horse.

That said I guess it's less of an issue as I'm now into the later stages of the game and I have an insane surplus of horse available. I built agribusiness more or less everywhere and I still have around 70 spare horses that I just can't seem to do much with. Mostly since their trade-value at this stage is more or less nothing and no units I can built require horse anymore (and I'm passed the special horse unit since I already passed combined arms).


The civ that got a bit broken by this was the Timurids. Perhaps it wasn't the same. Apparently the issue I had there was that the corporation of a city I conquered replaced the corporation I already had. So that building was stealeable.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tomatekhs-timurids-for-vp.632314/page-10
 
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