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Horrible "Actual" effects on some buildings?

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by RandV, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. RandV

    RandV Chieftain

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    I've just recently got back into Civ IV and am new to this mod, it has that nice little feature where it shows what the actual effects are actually going to do. However, it makes some buildings that always seem to appear at the top of the recommended build appear utterly broken. I was browsing the forum and saw a mention of a potential problem but didn't see any actual threads, so here are two screenshot examples: the International Port and the Food Processing Plant.

    Spoiler :




    Spoiler :




    I remember earlier on in my game I believe it was the foundry did the same thing, supposed to improve production but just dropped everything. At the time I thought maybe that was just from unhealthiness, but that shouldn't apply here. I mean the Food Processing plan that's supposed to give me a base +3 food and that's it says it will 'actually' give me -11F -1G -3S - 0.75C -0.25 E? That makes absolutely no sense.

    Note I haven't upgraded to the most recent version that just came out, as I'm worried it will break my curent game?
     
    Morphem01 likes this.
  2. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    The negative food is not correct. Could you post a save game? I'd like to see if I could pin down exactly what isn't being counted. I suspect it's food from resources. I think there is exactly one combination of resources that could result in negative food from FPP, and that is Corn + Fur + Rice with no other resource consumed by FPP. Fur enables Butchery for +1 food; Mill gets +1 food from Corn and Rice for a total of +2; Corn enables Bakery for +1 food; and Cannery would be +1 food, +1 for Corn. That adds up to 6. Food Processing Plant would only net 5 food, 3 base +2 for Corn, as it gets no bonus from Fur or Rice, for a penalty of -1. But that would be an incredibly rare condition to not have ANY other food resources.

    The negative commerce actually is correct. Food Processing Plant replaces Bakery among other buildings. Bakery generates a small amount of commerce from fruit resources but Food Processing Plant does not. You are supposed to make up for it in additional food.

    Foundry's penalty comes from the 1 citizen it employs, costing you either 1 tile's worth of yields or 1 specialist's worth of effects. The flat +5 hammers is supposed to make up for that, but I think it's a kink in the system we can do without. I think Foundry would be better instead with +25% production instead of the +5/+15% and no citizen employed.
     
  3. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Another thing that I would like to see actual effects do is properly handle buildings that both give +happiness and -happiness, or +health and -health. The actual number shown should be reduced by the lesser of the two numbers. So a +2 health that replaces a +1 health building should show +1 health, not +2 health and -1 health. This is especially true when the city is unhealthy, because the -1 health will show -1 food even when it really isn't being consumed.
     
  4. Fozman

    Fozman Chieftain

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    I find this occurs with several upgrade buildings; sometimes it occurs when you do not have all the resource bonuses for both buildings. I think most of us are aware of the issue with Weaver -> Tailor. I notice this also happens with Fish Traps -> Fisherman's Hut. (Often shows as -1:food: +1:health: until Optics w/ Whale.)

    Something else I noticed in a recent game are the changes you made to the Stoneworker's Hut, Vokarya. It now upgrades to Stonemason along with Carpenter, but this upgrade appears unattractive as it shows a small loss of :hammers: & :commerce:.

    There are a few others I can't remember at this time, but I certainly agree with OP that there are some problems with the calculated values.
     
  5. RandV

    RandV Chieftain

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    Okay I've attached a save file, note that I'm using the expanded Civs addon mod. The Viking cities I'm zoomed in on are good examples as they have both the international port and the food processing plant available to build. Also In Nidaros the actual result from the plant is -11, while in Uppsala which is missing a few more buildings such as the Mill is only -3.

    I'm guessing this is just missing descriptive text but also note that in Nidaros it only says the plant will replace the Quern, while in Uppsala it says it will replace only the Mill. I know for other buildings such as the international port it will give you a longer list of buildings replaced.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    The missing game text is probably related to something in CvGameTextMgr.cpp. I noticed that the buildings that ARE listed are the buildings that the city does NOT have, so they are the buildings the city cannot construct due to the replacement. Lines 15316-15341 cover this text. My initial guess is that the problem is related to the canEverConstruct function in line 15328. Probably canEverConstruct doesn't count buildings that are already in the city? So the line should check for the city being able to construct the building OR having the building already.

    On to the actual effects. I looked at Birka, Uppsala, and Haithabu. I can break things down a little. But there are some oddities, especially comparing Uppsala and Haithabu. Both have the exact same buildings to be replaced: Bakery, Butchery, Cannery, and Mill, and have the same modifiers to food (+50%, from Supermarket with power, Modern Granary with Fertilizers, and Communalism) but Uppsala's Food Processing Plant says -11 and Haithabu's says -13. Neither of these is right. The actual effects should be +9. You have every resource except Sheep, so FPP should be +29 food, replacing +4 from Butchery, +1 from Bakery, +12 from Cannery and +3 from Mill.

    If I remove the resource bonuses from the FPP, then the "actual effects" as displayed get much worse. Birka lists -50 food, Uppsala -45, and Haithabu -52. So the food from FPP's resources is in fact getting counted, but something is getting multiple-counted to give the actual effects that we see.

    I'm going to try removing some of the building replacements and see what the effects are.
     
  7. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Chieftain

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    Just wonder...
    I'll have a look at CvGameTextMgr.cpp.
    About actual effects, I didn't check the save yet but I thought about something: are there corporations in those cities? Maybe we should check if consumed resources are being considered properly.
     
  8. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    No, the Communalism civic is in effect and that shuts down all corporations. I've looked at the save game and if I add FPP with WorldBuilder, it gives the expected positive results on food production. The problem is definitely in the "actual effects" text line.
     
  9. RandV

    RandV Chieftain

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    Yeah I've been dragging this game out for a few days, but I went ahead and built the buildings anyways and my cities didn't suddenly start starving. Didn't really check the actual effect though, gets kind of hard to micromanage these things when you're empire gets that big.

    And I was wondering what was up with corporations, didn't realize it was because I was still sitting on Communism! I'll have to review that next time I jump on.
     
  10. Cor'e =)

    Cor'e =) Chieftain

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    1) Tailor, it's not worth upgrading to, even with plenty of Fur & Sheep.
    2) Aqueduct, it's not worth upgrading from Artesian Well, as it brings the same end result of +1Health & Fresh Water.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  11. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I'm pretty sure Tailor is not counting resources properly. It's the same bug that is happening with the Food Processing Plant.

    Analyzing your screenshot: Your Weaver is producing +3 commerce. That would be +1 base, +1 from Hemp, +1 from Sheep. I feel fairly safe in assuming you don't have Cotton, and your resource list shows you have Fur but don't have Silk.

    So the "actual effects" being calculated are Weaver's 3 commerce being replaced by Tailor's 2 base, which is why you are seeing a negative of what adds up to -1 commerce. But if you actually build a Tailor Shop, it should produce +4 commerce: +2 base, +1 from Fur, +1 from Sheep. Try actually building the Tailor Shop and see what the commerce is in the city display screen. Tailor will always at least break even with Weaver; it's straight-even if you have Hemp and no Dye or Fur, but in any other circumstance, you will get a small upgrade.

    That is not what it is meant to do. If the city is eligible for an Aqueduct, it builds an Aqueduct. Only if a city doesn't, which basically requires no Peaks or Hills in its vicinity, does the city get an Artesian Well. Artesian Well comes along an entire era AFTER the Aqueduct. The replacement path is used to give Aqueduct priority. We want to keep too much health from accumulating in the early eras, and this was a way of doing it.
     
  12. Cor'e =)

    Cor'e =) Chieftain

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    Thanks for that info, i tried the upgrade and Tailor gives 1Gold more than Weaver.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  13. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I've got a screenshot for this thread as well. How does a Village Hall produce unhealth? Civics are Slavery/Prophets/Conscription and the rest starter civics. Adding the Village Hall in WB (just to speed things up) produced no increase in unhealth.
     

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  14. Fozman

    Fozman Chieftain

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    My understanding is that it assumes the new free specialist will be a Slave; note also the :hammers: bonus. This goes for the entire Hall line of buildings.
     
  15. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    You're right. I didn't think of that. I almost always avoid Slavery when I'm playing. This was a test game to try and figure out what the Rev index will be on Theocracy. I got Slavery from a goody hut and switched to it. Usually I get an Engineer (from Carpenter) and that's what I assumed it was.
     
  16. Morphem01

    Morphem01 Chieftain

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    What the OP describes happens with a whole lot of buildings, and is quite a game breaker.
    Hopefully this mess will be fixed one day
     
  17. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I wouldn't call it an actual game breaker. The "Actual Effects" text as displayed is what is wrong; it has no real impact on gameplay.

    If you go ahead and build the buildings, you will get a benefit. There are some cases of genuine paradigm shift, such as Castle (military + other effects) to Star Fort (pure military), but those are much rarer.
     
  18. Cor'e =)

    Cor'e =) Chieftain

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    Yes, make sure you build all your Castle enabled buildings (Gates, Gardens, Moats, etc.) before going Star Fort, or else they won't be buildable after.
     
  19. nionios

    nionios Chieftain

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    At last, you can make the calculations with your own mind...
     

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