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Horse Archers on Mars. Settler, Turn 161, 1000 A.D Science Victory.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by vans163, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    Lets kick this off.

    Patch 1.0.0.26, Settler, Scythia, Pangea, Standard Speed, Small Map. (All default settings except map is Pangea)

    Won on turn 161 (1000 AD).

    Could probably do better by at least 10 turns. I got stuck in a tech snowball and spent 10 turns to finish easy tech. The key to getting really fast speeds is to snowball the overflow on ****** tech, then switch to expensive tech so each tech takes only 1 turn to finish. And yes, overflow is back!
     

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  2. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    Knew it was possible. Turn 142-143 Science win. (Project win happens after pressing end turn on turn 142. Not sure if this means end of turn 142 win, or start of turn 143 win).

    This map works because it has Geneva (+15% science) and with +3 amenities in all cities (keeping them small pop) that's +25% total science. I think without at least Geneva fast science victory is impossible. One of the contributing factors to being able to shave 20 turns off.

    Time to try and set it on Deity. Geneva might be useless on Deity if your constantly at war.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  3. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    How quickly are you getting the projects built? Potentially this is as big a hurdle as the research.
     
  4. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    Instantly. 100% Project build speed GS + 3k Hammers to project GS is 2 projects built in 1 turn. So SpaceDistrict + first 2 projects get built from capitals hammer overflow, 1 project gets hard built. The other 2 in 1 turn (first gets insta popped by 3k scientist, 2nd gets built in next turn).

    If you go down the GEngineer path , you can get another 100% space project bonus + another 3k hammers engineer.

    But that requires craploads of gold that I found hard to get that early, even with BigBen stockpile + Democracy.

    Come to think of it. It maybe doable on Deity if the AI snags a bunch of great people up. Making you spend less gold to get the good ones.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  5. IronfighterXXX

    IronfighterXXX Work Hard - Play Hard

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    I really liked the game on first view, but the more I play and read on the forum the more I realise how rushed, imbalanced and unpolished the game is. :sad:

    Anyway great thread, I really wonder how it will come out on higher difficulties.
     
  6. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    The way I see it is that this is just patch 1.0.0.26. The game might be totally different in the next patch we get. And then again change. Kind of like how Civ5 changed to much.

    So if records are set on a per patch basis, this makes it interesting to fire up the game come a new patch and try to get a fast time.

    But yes, unpolished 100%. For example hammers are way to easy to get early, specialist slots are useless, most pantheons/beliefs are crap (that did not change from Civ5 BNW) but a few new ones are ridiculous. Like +6 food from shrine/temp and +faith from chops. 100% hammer policies towards units I think are totally broken. Fox tile is what salt was in Civ5 but you don't even need to improve it.

    Is anyone else attempting at setting some record times? Would be great to have some solid maps to try and set times on.

    So things to look for in a qualified map:
    #1 Fox tiles at starting location / Fox tiles for expansions.
    #2 Geneva, Toronto, 1-2 cultured, 1-2 science city states
    #3 Starting location with room to expand
    #4 Lots of forest/deer/stone/marsh/rice for expansion cities
    #5 Lots of hills for expansion cities and hills in capital. (4 hills atleast per expansion city)
    #6 Pangea map probably
     
  7. IronfighterXXX

    IronfighterXXX Work Hard - Play Hard

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    Personally I'm not interested yet - too early - as you noticed things certainly change soon and we don't have HOF yet (hopefully we will get some kind of security mod in it for Civ6)

    I play exclusively on deity and conquest seem to be equal or even better way to expand than peacefully (you need army early anyway - they will come for you ;))
     
  8. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    My problem is the war weariness. I am not sure how that is calculated. But the penalties are significant and seem to never go away plus appear randomly around your cities. I think I found a correlation between how many attacks I make and how much war weariness I get.

    So getting own city attacked by enemy = 0 war weariness.
    Getting unit attacked by enemy in own territory = ?
    Getting unit attacked by enemy in enemy territory= ?
    Going to war/taking city = 0.
    Attacking a unit/city adds war weariness.

    If you can do quick cleanups, often avoiding the AI's units and going straight for the cities, you might be able to leverage this. Then the AI will kill themselves attacking your units.

    Negative -3 or more amenities is a real killer.
     
  9. IronfighterXXX

    IronfighterXXX Work Hard - Play Hard

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    I checked in my current deity game and after conquering Spain on 40T (two cities and two settlers :lol:) got only -1 war weariness, which vanished after war.
     
  10. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    Your point is valid. This weariness was around turn 140~. I just warred early on and found almost 0 penalties! So I ended up replaying that map again I posted and got a turn 124 Science Win, 200 AD!

    Some new changes in this strategy were early war to grab cities to add with settling.

    Going straight science, ignoring culture districts. The policy that adds +1 culture per district, Monument per city, is more then enough culture.

    You just need to reach The Enlightenment ASAP. After that culture is useless since by the time you hit Democracy you should already be close to winning. Globalization is not even an option.

    This is a true turn 124 win. As I pop the 3k hammers scientist to complete the final space project.

    Time to try Deity. The insane goal of sub 100 science win on Deity?

    Maybe with a perfect map. Close neighbours to steal cities by war, hill fox / Grassland Hill Spices in capital, 2 horses in / near second city range. Science / Culture City State near start location to get +2 discovery bonus. At least 2 Science city states you can become +3 friend with VERY early.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  11. Pysethus

    Pysethus Chieftain

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    I'm running a deity test run at online speed. After that's finished I'll definately try getting a competitive normal speed finish.
     
  12. IronfighterXXX

    IronfighterXXX Work Hard - Play Hard

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    I look forward to your reports!
     
  13. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    If you don't mind posting a good map if you roll one? Guessing you are playing as Scythians? I do not think its possible to have any kind of fast win otherwise.

    I rolled a few maps yesterday. Got 1 map with 5-6 spices in the area no neighbours, another map with 5 neighbours 2 horses but 0 science city states.

    Ideally I would want 2 close horses, 1-2 close neighbours, 1-2 science city states, fox/spices in capital, close science city state (for +2 science early on). In that order.

    Going to try and roll a map with the first 3 points at least.

    Why 2 horses, because horse archers I found are useless on defence and drop like flies. Horsemen can take a beating and can bulldoze cities without walls.

    The Scythia +50hp heal kind of leads to things like this: Rush in horseman ignoring units, attack city, AI attacks your horsemen with warriors damaging its warriors, Attack the warrior back with the horseman, killing it and healing +50hp, attack city again, pillage/promote as required for the heal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  14. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Chieftain Supporter

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    Can someone please define on-line speed? I'm guessing it's faster than quick speed, but how much faster? Does Steam need to be on-line to use it? I always had Steam off-line when I played Civ V.
     
  15. Pysethus

    Pysethus Chieftain

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    Online game speed is just a weird name for "quickest" speed. It's x2 compared to normal speed.
     
  16. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    This is dumb because it makes war useless. I think they should also give the units 2x movement and 2x attacks.
     
  17. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Chieftain Supporter

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    Thanks Pysethus!

    Armageddon, Lightning, Bullet, Blitz, or Rapid speed as in the Fast Chess variants would have been a better names than On-Line speed. Lightning Chess, Bullet Chess, Blitz Chess, and Rapid Chess are Fast Chess games where Lightning is the fastest and the others are progressively slower with Rapid Chess being the slowest in the group. Armageddon Chess is Blitz Chess with special rules.

    Armageddon speed sounds great too as a substitute for On-line speed. The name Armageddon implies the game will be over extremely fast.

    I like Blitz speed best as a replacement for On-line (Duh) speed. Blitz is short and its meaning is much more intuitive than On-line, what an idiotic name for the fastest game speed. Ask a stranger that knows nothing about Civ VI which is faster, Blitz or Quick; He will almost certainly say Blitz. Ask the same about On-line or Quick; he will likely say Quick, because On-line for his phone/home is glacially slow.
     
  18. vans163

    vans163 Chieftain

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    On Diety ended up getting Turn 118 Win. Sub 110 was definitely possible. Lost 2 turns due to mistakes, and lost about 10 turns due to a tech snowball again. Need to be really careful and complete early techs early on, to do little snowballs. Sub 100 is definitely doable, would need a better map.

    So war weariness is near 0 early on. Ended up killing 3 players asap. Left 2 alive. Spent too much resources on the army I think. I should of settled more early on. I think if the neighbours were closer, and one of the neighbours was not surrounded by mountain range sub 100 is possible.

    Early on chop horsemen, then send them 2 ways, before turn 45 kill off 2 civs. After turn 45 most civs have walls up and you need at least 6 horsemen per city to take them down.

    This map has 1 nearby neighbour, 2 Science city states including Geneva, 1 horse in capital and 1 horse nearby to the right. I ended up settling the first produced settler on the horse tile to immediately start chopping horsemen. Also the map has a Faith city state directly left, so you avoid building 1 Kurgan. (To get god of the forge).

    For a better time I want to roll 2 close neighbours, and make sure no one is walled off with a choke point.
     

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  19. IronfighterXXX

    IronfighterXXX Work Hard - Play Hard

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    :goodjob: vans163

    May I ask why you haven't played competitive games in Civ 5?

    Another question - which early techs you left to get overflow?
     
  20. Ramkhamhaeng

    Ramkhamhaeng Chieftain

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    +1 for the thread title :D
     

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