Horseman moves 3950 BC

[heliogabalus]

Hello everybody! Sorry that I took so long getting around to this (the computer pool I wanted to work in closed untimely early last night).

This is where we are at:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28158

(includes screenshot)

My underlings and coworkers in the Fanatical Bureau of Investigation and Exploration are getting restless as they see the possibility of roving across those wide plains out there... I have a hard time keeping them from just taking over the horse and running off randomly. All the time I tell them that we need to have some less black on the map and find good city sites for the good of our civilisation before we can indulge in our own pleasures and ride into the sunset with the horsie.

There are, of course, different ways to go on exploring. Therefore I have attached a poll for YOU to make your choice. If you favour an option that is not listed or think I should really include an obvious one, please elaborate in your post or pm me.

 

[duke o' york]

And what "pleasures" did you have in mind to indulge in after riding off into the sunset with the horsey?

I say that we should head NW but stick to 1-move terrain wherever possible and ensure that we discover the most terrain possible with each move.

000X
0h__X
0_H_X
X___X

By moving the horseman at a diagonal then we can uncover 5 unknown squares per move (NW in the example above, from H to h), whereas if we were to move up or down then we'd only uncover 3:

X000X
X_h_X
X_H_X
X___X

 

[heliogabalus]

> And what "pleasures" did you have in mind to indulge in after
> riding off into the sunset with the horsey?

That's purely a matter of the department. Sorry, can't talk to outsiders. Join and find out!


> By moving the horseman at a diagonal then we can uncover 5
> unknown squares per move (NW in the example above, from H to > h), whereas if we were to move up or down then we'd only
> uncover 3:

But because of the "45-degree-tiltedness" of the land moving N (8 on the number pad) actually means moving diagonally, doesn't it? I counted for myself, and it seems to me that first moving NW, then N nets us 1 + 5 = 6 unexplored squares, and N then NW nets us 4 + 3 = 7 unexplored squares. Of course we'd end up at the same spot.

 

[bigfatron]

Originally posted by heliogabalus
> By moving the horseman at a diagonal then we can uncover 5 unknown squares per move (NW in the example above, from H to h), whereas if we were to move up or down then we'd only
uncover 3:

But because of the "45-degree-tiltedness" of the land moving N (8 on the number pad) actually means moving diagonally, doesn't it? I counted for myself, and it seems to me that first moving NW, then N nets us 1 + 5 = 6 unexplored squares, and N then NW nets us 4 + 3 = 7 unexplored squares. Of course we'd end up at the same spot.

But doesn't N then N again get you 4 + 5 = 9?
Personally I would like to push east a bit with N + NE if the terrain allows.

edited: as I am geographically challenged and can't tell east from west!

 

[duke o' york]

Well although my explanation earlier may have been a little confusing what with getting the different directions confused, you get what I mean. Plus, it's difficult to actually replicate the isometric view by posting Xs and Os for which squares are which.
I maintain that it's wise to uncover as many squares as possible while just exploring and then go directly for huts we find along the way. I agree that the first move should be northward and then probably to move north or northwest depending on the terrain. If our first move north takes us to the coast then our President can use his initiative to guide further exploration.
We should avoid using the second settler to explore or to pop huts as we would be very foolish to lose him at this early stage. He's half our empire!

 

[ainwood]

North, to expose the maximum number of tiles - certainly not onto the hills or forest, as that waste movement points. I don't think South, as the only "interesting" terrain that way would be a river delta or such, but we won't see that with a single movement point anyway.

 

[MonkE]

North (= straight up) of course for the first move. To uncover the most tiles on the next move would be north again. Eventually turn west or east to uncover a perimeter. Pop huts as they are found... Soon we'll have bigger decisions to make

 

[duke o' york]

Can I just ask people to give their opinion on something. Personally, with a horseman, I always pop huts as soon as I see them, but I know that other players will move again and then pop the hut as the first move of their next turn so that they can have an attack if they get barbs out fo the hut. I'm quite happy to use the second move to pop huts on grass or plains but please say so if you value the horseman so much that you'd like to give him a better chance of survival. When the hut is on terrain that will take 2 moves, then I often like to move again before popping the hut on my next go because I can at least then get an extra couple of squares uncovered before I go to my possible death in the hut. I'm happy for the President to just decide as things go along, but if you want to try and get a national policy on second move hut popping then say so!

I reckon that if the special squares are not all grassland then there should be one two squares north of the hut but I reckon they will all be grass so don't let that affect your exploration.

 

[Angelscotboi]

I vote north too. best way really.

 

[heliogabalus]

As dear as the horseman is to us and especially our department, if he gets pulped by a barbarian he freed from a hut and has ben unable to attack preemptively, it's just his luck.

So I vote for hut popping ASAP, that is "Second move hut popping, Always".

 

[Leowind]

North first, to uncover as much terrain as possible, then North again or NW, depending on terrain. Avoid 2 movement terrain as much as possible.

As for hut popping, I am STRONGLY in favor of NO second move hut popping! Always use your second movement point to uncover more terrain if possible, then move into the hut with your first movement point. What have you lost, but one turn popping the hut? You've uncoverd more terrain, given your horse a slim chance of surviving a barb attack, and you still get the hut popped. I don't see what advantage there is to entering the hut right away as opposed to waiting one turn.

 

[GaryNemo]

Leowind,
I'm still learning Gotm Civ2, but I can tell you this: I like the way you think! Hopefully your brother will marry Ren's daughter, and your daughter will marry Dell19's son. Oh... this is a democracy.

 

[A_Bashkuev]

Dear heliogabalus & Leowind!

Excuse me for any interference, but I think that "second turn hut popping" is - very complex thing due to not barbarians perils, but - "unwanted tech advantage" dangers. OK, some "tech" is good, some isn't, but first of all any of them lenghten period of acquiring our desired tech.
If you must get for example "Masonry" on the next turn & almost collected shields for some meaningless Oracle - acquiring any new tech from hut except "Masonry" is wasting your shields, & acquiring "Masonry" is wasting your hut. Then it'll be advisable to wait just one more turn - stalking around.
From other point of view - if you've already got desired tech on this turn (or previous) it's advisable pop the hut - on your second move, because "new tech" can be big improvement of your science in any case.
I always try to pop my huts in last possible moment - in my GOTM18 game I've get "Engineering", "Invention" & "barbarians" from 3 huts of my Island. I think you know - what about I'm talking. It's pity that we've got already 31 July & I haven't enough time to finish my game & send my results. (Excuse me for some flooding.) In any case it's my own quirk & I can't advise it for anybody (if it's not "Fundy" game especially).
But anyway - any "popping" of your hut must be acknowledged by our science advisor or President, because "science matters" usually more important for our prosperity & making more influence on any subsequent events.

Excuse me, thnks & brgds Alex.

 

[duke o' york]

This is the masterwork that the Duke of Marlbrough produced for me and I'm going to post it here so that we can use it to guide our exploration. Now this is only conjecture, but I am 95% certain that this is the pattern we have to be following, but bear in mind that huts don't appear in the ocean and that the specials on our island at least seem to be all grassland.



You can tell which areas we have uncovered by the shading of the squares - I've tried to keep them in the right colours so you can tell what kind of terrain is in each square.

 

[Ren]

What is the dark brown square?

 

[duke o' york]

Does it look brown? Oops. It's supposed to be a browny green but since I was only using 32 colours, I didn't have loads of different greens for the grassland, forest, hills and (eventually) jungle and swamp. It's meant to be hills, as you can see from Dell's screenie in the turn thread. I'm not saying I'll be any kind of cartographer for the game, but this seemed a good way to show whereabouts I reckon we are in relation to the special grid and the hut pattern. If anyone feels we may be elsewhere on the grid then please say so.

 

[Ren]

I say go NW, then onto any new grassland, desert or plains squares that are revealed

 

[heliogabalus]

Dear Mr President, the people very much want our horseman to go north (8) as a first move, before the settlers are active next turn. His second move is entirely up to you, depending on the terrain and /or goodies discovered on the first.

I think the mob has reasoned wisely in this matter ;-) and therefore second their wishes.

 

[Leowind]

I'm not sure how duke figured out where we are on the specials grid with so little info (and don't have time to double check him), but based on his prediction, if the horse moves one N, then one NEast, we should discover another hut (assuming it's not ocean). This would (?) confirm his hypothesis and give us much valuable info. I had voted for N then NW, but would change it now to N then NE.

EDIT: okay, misread the map. Actually it will take two turns to get to the potential hut site. First turn move North both moves, second turn move North and Northwest (or vice versa). This is still my recommendation. We should confirm the specials pattern if at all possible.

BTW A_Bashkuev, stop apologizing You're not interruppting at all, this sort of discusion and hearing different viewpoints is exactly what the demo game is all about. You're right, of course, about our science situation being a factor in whether to pop a hut or not, but I think we're talking about a more general policy ASSUMING we are popping huts, whether to do it if a horse (or similar 2-move) unit discovers a hut on their first move, or wait until the next turn when the unit would have two moves, giving it one left over to attack any barbarians that might appear.

 

[duke o' york]

Leo - I was going to tell Alex to stop apologising for coming up with some great ideas.

With regard to the nature of these exploration polls, I think that from the next turn onwards then we should just give a general direction to explore in and let Dell use his initiative after that. If we continue in this manner then do we really expect him to play a single turn at a time and then post all the information? It's not going to be a popular job as President if you only get to play a single turn at a time and have to wait a week for feedback. I say that when Dell gets round to playing next time then we just let him explore northwards for some more turns, either until he has lost the horsey to some barbs or until he can't explore any further and has to decide where to settle. Maybe he could stop and save if we meet another civ, or if our science research (first tech in 5 turns, without hut techs) changes from those selected in the science thread.