horsemen to samari?
- Thread starter Joecastra
- Start date
Well, nobody's horsemen upgrade to the knight position. I would imagine the reason for that is precisely because the Japanese and Indian UU's occupy that slot, and they don't use horses. I wish that horsemen COULD be upgraded, even if it meant allowing the Japanese and Indians to upgrade them to their UU's.
Peteus
All good things...
Can anything be upgraded to a unique unit? I thought that wasn't the case.
If I'm not mistaken, the French can upgrade pikemen or spearmen to their musketeer, because it fills the spot of the musketman. I do believe Romans can upgrade warriors to legions, also; back when I played Romans, I was too new and overwhelmed by it all to really have paid much attention to it.
Can Persians upgrade warriors to Immortals?
Can Persians upgrade warriors to Immortals?
docceh
Iron Maiden Fan!
Russian Knights that would usually upgrade to Cavalry DO NOT upgrade to Cossacks. This is really annoying but I'm sure it could be amended with the editor.
docceh
Iron Maiden Fan!
There IS a way to upgrade a horseman to a samurai but it requires the use of the Editor and has a major reprocussion:
In the editor, go and edit the Horseman's Rules and where it says upgrade Knight change it to Samurai and you shall be able to upgrade it.
The reprocussion at this stage is that Every Civ Will Be Able To Build Samurai By Upgrading a Horseman! To amend this, you must make sure that Japan is the only nation highlighted in the "Available To:" box. This now means that only Japan can build horsemen however.
It may be worth it as the AI will only be able to produce Samurai by upgrading but will only be able to build Knights.
This also works for any other UU and Civ so try it out if you want!
-docceh
In the editor, go and edit the Horseman's Rules and where it says upgrade Knight change it to Samurai and you shall be able to upgrade it.
The reprocussion at this stage is that Every Civ Will Be Able To Build Samurai By Upgrading a Horseman! To amend this, you must make sure that Japan is the only nation highlighted in the "Available To:" box. This now means that only Japan can build horsemen however.
It may be worth it as the AI will only be able to produce Samurai by upgrading but will only be able to build Knights.
This also works for any other UU and Civ so try it out if you want!
-docceh
Buecephalus
Bolo Mark XXV
I've never played as the French so I can't comment on that, but as far as upgrading warriors to legions can't be done. I've never been able to upgrade ANY unit to a unique unit. I don't believe you can at least not without changing it in the editor (or as I call it, cheating). Which would kinda make sense. I mean if you've got a ton of horsemen sitting around all veteran or elite and suddenly they're samurai that would be pretty unbalancing.
"do or do not, there is no try."
"do or do not, there is no try."
Now I'm confused! In a game I was just playing, I had a horseman I had forgotten about for a very long time, and when I activated it, it gave me the option to upgrade it to cavalry. I checked the civilopedia and sure enough, it says upgrades to knight. I've tinkered with a couple of things, and I forget if I might have changed that. Do horsemen upgrade to knights in the standard rules? I always thought they didn't, and can recall having been frustrated about it. But I don't remember changing them, now suddenly I can upgrade them.
My brain hurts...
My brain hurts...
docceh
Iron Maiden Fan!
I'm making an assumption here because I haven't come across this situation:
Your technological advances must allow you to build Cavalry so that any unit that upgrade progression will automatically be availalbe to upgrade to the highest unit.
If this wasn't the case you would have to (making up figures here):
Upgrade Horseman -> Knight (40 gold)
THEN
Upgrade Knight -> Cavalry (40 gold)
Total = 80 gold
However, the game allows you to upgrade to the highest unit:
Upgrade Horseman -> Cavalry (80 gold)
Total = 80 gold
docceh
Iron Maiden Fan!
If you also had any Chariot left, you would be able to upgrade them straight to Cavalry.
THis question was addressed by Firaxis in previous post... No units can upgrade into a UU. For any civ. THis is a design decision.
Horses do upgrade to knights, if you have regular knigts -- ie, not a UU in place of the knight.
Knights or their equivalent do upgrade to cavalry, unless you have the Cossack. SEe rule no. 1.
Almost anything can be edited, or course...
However, one of the rules for the high score posting, and for tournaments is using basic rules.. So I am learning to live with them.
Horses do upgrade to knights, if you have regular knigts -- ie, not a UU in place of the knight.
Knights or their equivalent do upgrade to cavalry, unless you have the Cossack. SEe rule no. 1.
Almost anything can be edited, or course...
However, one of the rules for the high score posting, and for tournaments is using basic rules.. So I am learning to live with them.
Zouave
Crusader
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,603
"Samari"??? :crazyeyes
SAMORI was the Mandinka king in western Africa who fought a war with the French in the 1890's.
SAMURAI are a type of Japanese warrior.
And with all the bizarre spellings on this forum I think it's time we added a Spellcheck here.
Ah, public education.
SAMORI was the Mandinka king in western Africa who fought a war with the French in the 1890's.
SAMURAI are a type of Japanese warrior.
And with all the bizarre spellings on this forum I think it's time we added a Spellcheck here.
Ah, public education.
spadachroniarz
Chieftain
There is a work-around for this if you use the editor and copy tool. With copy tool, make a copy of the horseman unit. Now, open up the new bic file in the editor. Go to edit units and select the original horseman. Under nations can build, hold the shift key and select Japan. This should unhighlight Japan, but leave all other civs (except iroqoius) as buliders of horseman. Now, move to the new horseman unit at the bottom of the list. Click Japan in the nations can build box. This should leave Japan as the sole builder of this type of unit. Finally, change the upgrades to box from knight to samurai. Save the file and play the scenario.
This way there are two horseman units in the game, one that most civs build that upgrades to knights and another that only the Japanese can build that upgrades to samurai. This workaround can be used for other civ-specific units, but becomes cumbersome with units like the cossack that are higher up the tech tree since you have to create several russian specific copy units to finally get to the cossack.
This way there are two horseman units in the game, one that most civs build that upgrades to knights and another that only the Japanese can build that upgrades to samurai. This workaround can be used for other civ-specific units, but becomes cumbersome with units like the cossack that are higher up the tech tree since you have to create several russian specific copy units to finally get to the cossack.
Akka
Moody old mage.
First, as a general rule, it's possible to upgrade FROM a UU, but not TO.
Well, yes, if you could upgrade to your UU, you would be able to upgrade suddendly your whole army of horsemen to samurai. Big deal. With this "marvelous" design decision, what you have now is that your UU, which is SUPPOSED to give you an advantage, is really a BURDEN.
Particularly if you're french, as musketeers are defense units : either you have to rebuild your whole empire defense, either you have to wait until nationalism and pray that nobody will crush you meanwhile.
It's not like the UU were horribly more powerful than regular units, it's often just a +1 in one rating. I prefer having the ability to upgrade my 35 horsemen to kinghts rather than have a +1 knight unit but being obliged to rebuild them from the scratch.
Well, yes, if you could upgrade to your UU, you would be able to upgrade suddendly your whole army of horsemen to samurai. Big deal. With this "marvelous" design decision, what you have now is that your UU, which is SUPPOSED to give you an advantage, is really a BURDEN.
Particularly if you're french, as musketeers are defense units : either you have to rebuild your whole empire defense, either you have to wait until nationalism and pray that nobody will crush you meanwhile.
It's not like the UU were horribly more powerful than regular units, it's often just a +1 in one rating. I prefer having the ability to upgrade my 35 horsemen to kinghts rather than have a +1 knight unit but being obliged to rebuild them from the scratch.
Buecephalus
Bolo Mark XXV
I'm sorry, you said "what's the big deal ?"about upgrading horsemen to samurai? I'll tell you what the big deal is. Horsemen, as a general rule, suck. I never build 'em to wage war. They get totally slaughtered by spearmen. However, if I could upgrade a bunch of them to samurai in one turn, I'd stockpile horseman all the way to chivalry and then go through spearmen (and most anything else up to riflemen) like a hot katana through sushi. Used correctly, many UU's (chinese, japanese, russian, german, persian) can be devastating. IMHO.
"do or do not, there is no try."
"do or do not, there is no try."
Ironikinit
Prince
Hmm, Akka has a good point about the French UU. You really would have to rebuild your entire defensive force... and defensive units tend to be the majority of my military. Wow, the French UU stinks. The French do have a good mix of attributes, though.
I object to horsemen upgrading to samurai because samurai aren't horsemen, they don't have horses, they have nothing to do with horses. It might seem silly, but that's how I see it.
I don't agree, Buecephalus, that horsemen suck. They are good scouts and are good for softening up a target because they can retreat. I like to attack with a couple horsemen and follow up with swordsmen. Also, because they have the extra movement point, they are good units to produce in my rear cities while those closer to the front are cranking out spearmen and swordsmen.
Anyway, as the rules currently stand, the inability to upgrade to UUs is just another strategic consideration. For example, Persia and Roman players should build less warriors then they might if they were using another civ, because of how warriors are a dead end for them. Further, one has to plan for the big war that follows the appearance of the unique unit by building barracks and getting alliances ready for the inevitable war. It's also smart to change governments PRIOR to the appearance of the UU because spending time in anarchy during your golden age isn't the smart way to play.
I object to horsemen upgrading to samurai because samurai aren't horsemen, they don't have horses, they have nothing to do with horses. It might seem silly, but that's how I see it.
I don't agree, Buecephalus, that horsemen suck. They are good scouts and are good for softening up a target because they can retreat. I like to attack with a couple horsemen and follow up with swordsmen. Also, because they have the extra movement point, they are good units to produce in my rear cities while those closer to the front are cranking out spearmen and swordsmen.
Anyway, as the rules currently stand, the inability to upgrade to UUs is just another strategic consideration. For example, Persia and Roman players should build less warriors then they might if they were using another civ, because of how warriors are a dead end for them. Further, one has to plan for the big war that follows the appearance of the unique unit by building barracks and getting alliances ready for the inevitable war. It's also smart to change governments PRIOR to the appearance of the UU because spending time in anarchy during your golden age isn't the smart way to play.
Akka
Moody old mage.
I keep my comment : what's the big deal ? If you're not Japanese, you can still stockpile horsemen all the way to chivalry. But as knight is not a UU (which, remember, is supposed to be an ADVANTAGE) you CAN upgrade them all. And if it's about going through spearmen, it's no difference being a knight or a samuraï, both having 4 in attack.
And what do you gain in exchange for this lost ability to upgrade ? +1 in defense. Yeah. I hope you're happy.
Samuraïs could fight on foot and, lost of time, did. Nevertheless, they were the nobility, and many of them had horses and used them in war. Perhaps not the the extend of european knights, but very often anyway.
Saw spadachroniarz's comments above, and they sound REAL interesting ...
Does any Kind person out there have a link they could post, where exactly is this copy tool and is there any kind of instructions for using it? I have to have it (copy tool program) running and then start the editior? Sorry, I do ok with computers, but certainly am not a guru...
I presume that using this copy tool allows making a modification of a unit and at the same time leaving the "original" in place unchanged? Does it carry the original's animation files to the copy or you have to provide them yourself?
Thanks in advance, I'd be most grateful if someone could post this info or email it! Does anyone know if there is a tutorial or instructions on using it anywhere?
Up to now I have been limited to simply modifing properties in the Editior, but to create a NEW unit and STILL HAVE the original unit is very liberating in what you can do. Does this tend to cause game crashes unless the new unit is not real radical? For example, I had a scheme in mind to make the rather worthless Explorer unit into a "Light Infantry" or "Security Troops" with a 3-3-1 set of ratings (still with "All terrain as Road" but with 1 rather then 2 MP), but was afraid that suddenly having the heretofo "0" combat strength unit (ie capturable?) into a combat unit would confuse the program or the AI. But if you CREATE a new unit with those properties and set it up in the "AI Strategy" as say a defensive or offensive unit, maybe it would work ok?
Anyway, THANKS to anyone whos willing to post any info on this!!!!
Calling all Moders ....
Buecephalus
Bolo Mark XXV
The big deal: KNIGHTS ARE ON HORSES, i.e. they are mounted units and have a built-in disadvantage vs. spearmen and pikemen. Samurai, while they have the same attack do NOT suffer from this disadvantage, least not in my experience. Why? I dunno... maybe...oh yeah, NO HORSES!
While we are on the subject, it doesn't matter whether they had horses in the real world, they don't in the game, end of story.
"do or do not, there is no try."
While we are on the subject, it doesn't matter whether they had horses in the real world, they don't in the game, end of story.
"do or do not, there is no try."
