How a software company should treat their customers...

[Duuk]

Firaxis did release a Demo shortly after the game was released, and it was limited to the amount of turns you could take. Anybody could have waited to try the Demo before buying the game, I almost always do this myself before buying a game! I didn't with Civ4 because I decided if I couldn't run it I would buy a new computer, But I was lucky and it runs fine.

Here's the link to the Demo in case anybody wants to try it if they havn't already bought the game.
http://www.civfanatics.com/news2/comments.php?id=589

They released a demo... AFTER the game was released? By that time, the full version was available for download, so why bother?

 

[Phoenix_56721]

They released a demo... AFTER the game was released? By that time, the full version was available for download, so why bother?

Because some people don't won't to download a pirated version of a game because it's illegal and you're computer can be infected with virus's.

 

[warpstorm]

never buy without trying it first or checking the community forums for at least a month after release.

This is probably good advise for all software purchases.

 

[MrPaladin]

I'm currently doing this for the resent game release of oblivion...

 

[Commander Bello]

They released a demo... AFTER the game was released? By that time, the full version was available for download, so why bother?

Probably the desperate attempt to acquire additional customers.
I remember, when I brought up the same question about why release a demo AFTER release, how people explained to me how clever this move was

Anyway, as we have learned the hard way, Civ4 was massively rushed (and don't blame Take2 for it, the 14 days wouldn't have made any difference, as we know by now). They have missed their complete schedule (one could think they really started developing mid of 2005) and finally were even late with the demo

And from a company like this I shall buy an expansion?

 

[Sahkuhnder]

...never buy without trying it first or checking the community forums for at least a month after release.

This is good advice, but I don't have that much self-control or patience.

I don't buy that many games, but if I read that one that does interest me is getting good pre-release reviews I just go ahead and pre-order. I guess this would negate part of my right to complain if I did receive a rushed-to-market product that really wasn't completely finished.

 

[Napoliean]

How about we all do this, email frixes or who ever and tell them if they copy protect the next game we will not buy it and we would most likely illegally down load it.

I really don't see the goddam point to it, other then wasting money paying the "protection coders" who to a 'lame' job of it anyway. hell you don't even need a no cd patch you can just mount the image and run a safedisk hider tool and play away.

I know a way of protection games, its very simple really. But am not going to tell unless someones wanting to pay me a fair bit of cash.

I thought about this last night actually, its the best way to protect a game.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

Probably the desperate attempt to acquire additional customers.
I remember, when I brought up the same question about why release a demo AFTER release, how people explained to me how clever this move was

And from a company like this I shall buy an expansion?

Stardock released their Demo of GalCiv2 shortly after their release also, Was this another desperate attempt to acquire additional customers...
Civ4 sales have been great in the top 10 up till this last report came out. I remember you posting before the game was released and saying that nobody was interested in buying a Turn based game like Civ4 anymore...
And if you don't want to buy the Expansion then don't.... nobody forced you to buy Civ4 and nobody is going to force you to buy Warlords, the way you feel about Firaxis is clear and you shouldn't buy another game from them ever (please don't!!!)

 

[Meffy]

Probably the desperate attempt to acquire additional customers.

<facetious> How dare they? It's an outrage! </facetious>

Come on, think about it -- in one sentence you've just described all of sales and marketing. For CivIV and everything else in the world.

 

[Sidewinder00Q]

Oh yes, I remember Activision. After MechWarrior II, I completely refused to buy any Activision products based on their customer service record. However, I made an exception when my favorite series, Starfleet Command, moved to Activision for the Fourth version, Starfleet Command III. (There was a Starfleet Command 2 and a half in there)

I knew the developers, three patches for SFC I, something like tweleve patches for SFC II (only four were neccesary for gameplay issues, the other eight added features and balanced some items), ten for SFC 2.5, same deal two for gameplay eight for new features. But when SFC III rolled around, Activision refused to release ANY patch for the game, despite it being broken out of the box. The Devs got around that and released two "Beta Patches" to the community for "Beta Testing" but Activision got wise and shut that down.

It's no wonder that more people play SFC 2.5 than SFC III.

But All four SFC games were playable without the CD, without a no-cd crack. You only needed the CD and Key for installing.

 

[Duuk]

Activision destroyed Call to Power II.

I honestly believe 1, maybe 2 tops more patches and I'd have never bought any other Civ-style game again. CTP2 was great.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

This turned out to be an interesting thread. I've never paid much attention to piracy issues and the info in those posts describing how Stardock deals with it is even more interesting. Sounds like those guys have their heads together, and know what they are doing. From what I've read about GC2, they made AI improvement a large priority and succeeded some. To me, that is where most computer games need the most improvement. Sounds like a game I will probably buy now.

Stardock is without a doubt a top notch company, and GalCiv2 is a extremely fun game. You can get lost for hours just in the ship design part of the game alone, you can literally design any type of ship you can image along with adding other features like engines, Shields, weapons, life support esc. Again I believe that since Stardock is it's own publisher it has the freedom to release patches and game content they way they see fit. Most publisher look at the bottom line $$$$$ when they consider how long to support a product or if and when to release a Expansion.

I think Firaxis has dropped the ball with this last patch, weather it's 2k holding them back from release or not. They should of pushed for a earlier release of the patch to help people who are still having problems playing the game. But since they let themselves be bought by 2K games then I guess they lost a lot of control over how their game is supported. I wish more companies would follow Stardock's lead and take the gamble to publish their own game. I have not had any problem running Civ4 on my 5 year old machine but other have on newer machines which is too bad. I will still buy Warlords when it comes out depending on what they add to the Expansion ofcoarse, which we still haven't heard any concrete information about yet.

In the Expansion I hope Firaxis changes or addresses.....

- The combat system, suicide cat's are dumb and boring.
- The need for ranged artillery/navel bombardment of tiles.
- Forts are worthless and need a Zone of Control.
- Reducing the amount of Religions one Civ can found, I think a Civ should be only allowed to found one Religion and then be able to adopt 1 or 2 minor religion's.
- Add more military units.
- Improve the combat animation's

 

[Arizona_Steve]

My how things have changed with the last two games I bought...

Civ III had plenty of patches that address both bugs and gameplay issues. Civ IV has a couple of patches in the first two months followed by nothing, despite the fact that there are plenty of people who cannot even play the game.

Not to mention the missing SDK that was promised. What happened there?

Oblivion has gone the wrong way too. Their new pay-for-mod system went into action within two weeks of the game coming out (Morrowind's mods were free). There has been little mention of a patch, although they finally updated the forums after they were rightly slapped around for their priorities. There are also "delays" in the releasing of a Max exporter for models. Guess they don't want the mod community competing with their paid mods.

There is one common factor here. The publisher.

 

[Lev Bronstein]

Probably the desperate attempt to acquire additional customers.
I remember, when I brought up the same question about why release a demo AFTER release, how people explained to me how clever this move was

Anyway, as we have learned the hard way, Civ4 was massively rushed (and don't blame Take2 for it, the 14 days wouldn't have made any difference, as we know by now). They have missed their complete schedule (one could think they really started developing mid of 2005) and finally were even late with the demo

And from a company like this I shall buy an expansion?

Agreed.

And how can I trust the recommended computer stats? The C4 developers printed on the game box a recommended 512Ram. And now the fanbois insist that the consumer must be aware that the advertised stats-features of PC games are, like politicians' promises, to be understood in advance & as a given/lie, that they are inaccurate, & that the consumer needs to substantially exceed the "recommended stats" if he wants a purchased game to work.

Businessmen should be held responsible for their ADVERTISED product. At the very least, a "Lemon Law" should be in effect that allows the consumer their $money back for a faulty product. It should not be up to the customer to fix-repair the product they paid their easily inherited $$$ for (especially if their computers meet the recommended-stats).

 

[Phoenix_56721]

My how things have changed with the last two games I bought...

Civ III had plenty of patches that address both bugs and gameplay issues. Civ IV has a couple of patches in the first two months followed by nothing, despite the fact that there are plenty of people who cannot even play the game.

Not to mention the missing SDK that was promised. What happened there?

Oblivion has gone the wrong way too. Their new pay-for-mod system went into action within two weeks of the game coming out (Morrowind's mods were free). There has been little mention of a patch, although they finally updated the forums after they were rightly slapped around for their priorities. There are also "delays" in the releasing of a Max exporter for models. Guess they don't want the mod community competing with their paid mods.

There is one common factor here. The publisher.

I don't play RPG's including Oblivion, They really implemented a (Pay For a Mod System)?!?!?!?!?! wow... I really hope this doesn't become a tread in PC gameing.. If it does I might have to stop buying from any publisher that would demand such a outrageous system.

 

[Arizona_Steve]

Check out www.elderscrolls.com/forums - there's been 11 200-message threads about the pay-for-mods scam.

 

[Commander Bello]

[...] I remember you posting before the game was released and saying that nobody was interested in buying a Turn based game like Civ4 anymore...[...]

I would like you to point me to this statement, as it looks quite unfamiliar to me. At least not without a certain context, which you didn't mention. So, please just point me to that very posting.

I have to admit, though, that the number of 1 million copies sold indeed astonishes me.

Btw, I think I remember you posting a lot about how perfectly designed and programmed Civ4 was, way before the first patch came out. If I am not mislead in my memory, the developers seem to have had different versions of the game than the one which fortunately was shipped to you.

 

[Commander Bello]

Activision destroyed Call to Power II.

I honestly believe 1, maybe 2 tops more patches and I'd have never bought any other Civ-style game again. CTP2 was great.

I completely agree.
Although it had issues of its own, you could feel that there was much love in many concepts and little items.
Who would ever forget the tension when the first slavemasters were walking around? Guard your cities!
And then, the Abolotionist... both chasing each other... Now, THIS was fun!

And what do we have in Civ4? A jewish missionar... ah, sorry, a Hindu missionar.. no, wait, it must be... a Buddhist? Christian? Taoist? Whatever....

 

[Phoenix_56721]

I would like you to point me to this statement, as it looks quite unfamiliar to me. At least not without a certain context, which you didn't mention. So, please just point me to that very posting.

I have to admit, though, that the number of 1 million copies sold indeed astonishes me.

Btw, I think I remember you posting a lot about how perfectly designed and programmed Civ4 was, way before the first patch came out. If I am not mislead in my memory, the developers seem to have had different versions of the game than the one which fortunately was shipped to you.

I tried looking for the post to which I was referring but you have so many that I can't find it, maybe it wasn't you, I could be wrong (sorry if I was.)

I still love Civ4 I think its a great game, but its not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I do feel that the Warlord's expansion is the rest of the original game (at least in regards to gameplay) that was intended to ship in October. At least I'm guessing that because of how fast the Expansion was announced after the original game. But then we still have very little information on Warlords, so who really knows what they are planning to add.

I still have faith in Firaxis to address these problem in the next patch, but everyday that goes by without any information about this patch makes me skeptical that it will be released at all. It's seems more likely they will add the new patch in the Warlords Expansion, thus making us pay for a patch that should be free. If this ends up being the case then I will loose my faith in Firaxis/2k games!!!! The game does run fine for me on my old machine but there seems to be to many people that are having trouble with newer computer's, that needs to be addressed and we still have heard nothing from them, not even a expected date or even what the patch will include.

 

[guyfamous]

(and don't blame Take2 for it, the 14 days wouldn't have made any difference, as we know by now).

You are wrong there. Take 2 needed the revenue and their fiscal year ended at the end of October. The product (in this case, the release of Civ IV) needed to be in the stores for them to count the revenue. They couldn't wait two weeks.

I agree that the game would have benefitted from another month or two of work, but Firaxis didn't have the choice.