LucyDuke
staring at the clock
That is my question.
How are socialism and communism different?
- Thread starter LucyDuke
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Mowque
Hypermodernist
i line anagolys...Fascism is to Capitalism as Communism is to Socialism..and now lets hear what people who know what they are talking about say...
GinandTonic
Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime
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A belief in social justice v a belief in the state ownership of the means of production.
Alpine Trooper
AllCiv
Socialism: The idea that workers should have political power, or a larger share of the power.
Communism: the opposite of capitalism
capitalism: private ownership of capital
marxism: combines socialism and communism
Communism: the opposite of capitalism
capitalism: private ownership of capital
marxism: combines socialism and communism
Mise
isle of lucy
Luceafarul has a link in his sig that explains it, IIRC (twas about 4 yrs ago that I read it so I might be wrong), but it explains it from an "anarchist" POV, so might emphasise the negatives disproportionately. It will, of course, explain it from a ultra-left wing POV, meaning it will shed some light on the differences better than, say, Wikipedia.
warpus
In pork I trust
Socialism is liberal.
Communism is conservative.
(not in the political (be it american or otherwise) meaning of the words)
Communism is conservative.
(not in the political (be it american or otherwise) meaning of the words)
ThePrussian
Warlord
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The number of murdered.
socialism is somewhat more of a modification on existing governments, (such as democracy-the two aren't mutually exclusive) while communism is a complete change-a 'dictatorship of the people' in a way-i.e., communism demands more radical changes
and please note: there has never been a true communist state (unless perhaps you count some sort of group of animals)
that's my understanding, anyway
and please note: there has never been a true communist state (unless perhaps you count some sort of group of animals)
that's my understanding, anyway
warpus
In pork I trust
I found this somewhere:
I think it explains it well
I think it explains it well
Alpine Trooper
AllCiv
I would imagine that if socialism emphasizes the inclusion of the worker into ownership and policy direction of the company, Communism would emphasize the complete rearrangement of ownership to the worker or state.
There is more than one definition. Communists (of the marxist-leninist tradition) usually view socialim as a stage of development post capitalism but before communism itself. For other people it can mean different things; from a moderate social-democracy to complete dictatorship of the proletariat. There is no right definition, and I get annoyed when people pretend there is.
WICKLC1
King
Socialism is pretty much diet communism.
Socialists share the opinion that when two men work one hour, they should both be paid similarly, no matter what they work. The government should try to make everyone have a job or at least make sure that the unemployed won't starve.
Communists believe that everything the community produces should be put in one basket. Everyone in need simply takes what he needs. Such a system is obviously flawed.
Communists believe that everything the community produces should be put in one basket. Everyone in need simply takes what he needs. Such a system is obviously flawed.
holy king
Deity
that not only depends on where in the world you are, but also which language you are speaking.
seriously.
seriously.
Orange Seeds
playing with cymbals
A thread like this could do wonders if people would put some effort into it.
The hugest misconception in populist politics is Socialism=Communism=Marxism
The hugest misconception in populist politics is Socialism=Communism=Marxism
GinandTonic
Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime
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Not on this side of the pond.
warpus
In pork I trust
That's just not true.
Yeah, I agree with the posts above about how even in the English language nobody ever seems to reach a clear consensus. For those who actually have a solidly accepted definition in their own language (for the equivalent words) I'd be interested to hear it as well.
I generally prefer to use communism to refer to being very left in general, just as capitalism is right. "Public ownership of the means of production" is a pretty simple definition I've had since grade school so that's a start. Thus, communism can refer to a wide spectrum of governments/societies all along social or other non-economic issues, just like I'd use capitalism.
What I really hate is people who assume or assert communism = authoritarianism: I tend to want to very clearly state that this is not the case, any more than capitalism = authoritarianism because states like Congo could also be defined as "capitalist." If you wanted me to give a somewhat simple division of ideologies that explains this, it would start with distinguishing socialism and Stalinism/Maoism/Leninism as both under the heading of communism. In short:
Authoritarian/Dictatorial communism = Stalinism
Democratic/non-authoritarian communism = socialism.
It parallels the use of capitalism a bit but as an economic system I think capitalism has existed in a wider variety of states otherwise -roughly something like:
Authoritarian capitalism = Fascism or Theocracy, or just a Dictatorship
Democratic/Non-authoritarian capitalism = Libertarianism, or just Anarchy
So with capitalism this is not to say that capitalism alone makes a state one of these - A state that otherwise fits some other label, could have communism or capitalism on an economic scale. These are also extremes in every regard - there can be centrists on both the economic scale (between communism/capitalism) and anything in between on the other dimensions as well.
Finally, I grudingly accept people who use Communism, Capital C to describe states like Stalin's or Mao's as authoritarian, but then the whole invention of a term like Stalinism is wasted. If communism just means "left - as in control of economic means of production" it can applied to different situations without carrying as much stigma.
In pretty much all cases, though, socialism means economically left with a progressive society that preserves social liberties, and very often includes democracy. Anyone giving alternate definitions of socialism in English is being even more stupid (there's always a few exceptions - like maybe talking about communal tribal structures historically but not in modern context). This includes idiotic claims about "National Socialists" or the idea that government simply helping out big business is "socialist" (tough call on what it is but use something like plutocracy or just plain old corruption).
I generally prefer to use communism to refer to being very left in general, just as capitalism is right. "Public ownership of the means of production" is a pretty simple definition I've had since grade school so that's a start. Thus, communism can refer to a wide spectrum of governments/societies all along social or other non-economic issues, just like I'd use capitalism.
What I really hate is people who assume or assert communism = authoritarianism: I tend to want to very clearly state that this is not the case, any more than capitalism = authoritarianism because states like Congo could also be defined as "capitalist." If you wanted me to give a somewhat simple division of ideologies that explains this, it would start with distinguishing socialism and Stalinism/Maoism/Leninism as both under the heading of communism. In short:
Authoritarian/Dictatorial communism = Stalinism
Democratic/non-authoritarian communism = socialism.
It parallels the use of capitalism a bit but as an economic system I think capitalism has existed in a wider variety of states otherwise -roughly something like:
Authoritarian capitalism = Fascism or Theocracy, or just a Dictatorship
Democratic/Non-authoritarian capitalism = Libertarianism, or just Anarchy
So with capitalism this is not to say that capitalism alone makes a state one of these - A state that otherwise fits some other label, could have communism or capitalism on an economic scale. These are also extremes in every regard - there can be centrists on both the economic scale (between communism/capitalism) and anything in between on the other dimensions as well.
Finally, I grudingly accept people who use Communism, Capital C to describe states like Stalin's or Mao's as authoritarian, but then the whole invention of a term like Stalinism is wasted. If communism just means "left - as in control of economic means of production" it can applied to different situations without carrying as much stigma.
In pretty much all cases, though, socialism means economically left with a progressive society that preserves social liberties, and very often includes democracy. Anyone giving alternate definitions of socialism in English is being even more stupid (there's always a few exceptions - like maybe talking about communal tribal structures historically but not in modern context). This includes idiotic claims about "National Socialists" or the idea that government simply helping out big business is "socialist" (tough call on what it is but use something like plutocracy or just plain old corruption).
Masquerouge
Deity
To me, communism is much more hardcore than socialism, but that's probably because France was ruled by a socialist party that was socialist in name only.
Well, they did nationalize some stuff, but I think we can all agree it's not that socialist anymore
Well, they did nationalize some stuff, but I think we can all agree it's not that socialist anymore
