I've been making my way through the various civs and really loving the game so far. So far I haven't had any trouble deciding what kind of victory or game to play for, but Indonesia's unique traits are so particularly unique and different that I'm not sure what kind of victory or style to go for. So I figured I'd ask and see what other people are doing with them to get ideas for when I finish up my Venice game. So, what have you found works well for the Spice Islanders?
How are you playing Indonesia?
- Thread starter Gintoki89
- Start date
I feel they are best geared for a religious, somewhat wide game with also a lot of trading options. Culture/diplomacy seem like the go-to VCs but its not a very specialized Civ, anything goes.
The candi might seem a bit weak at first sight, but I think its maybe the strongest aspect of the civ. Try to get many coastal cities with candis, then create trade routes into civs with different religions than yours. 2 base faith + 2 for your religion + 2 for other religion you connect to and get enough pressure from. A single candi can generate as much faith as a grand temple! Obviously you want to go full piety to take advantage of this, and get a good reformation belief such as the great people or the science building one.
The spice islanders UA lets you get wider with less unhappiness problems. I often find this can be hard to fully utilize until astronomy, there's usually only one suitable island early on. If I see an island with 1-3 tiles and some sea resources around, I usually go for it.
I usually make a few kris swordsmen, get good upgrades for them and keep them around for protection. Infantry with +1 movement and 2 attacks is pretty darn powerful.
Note that I've mostly been playing on continents maps with them, on archipelago the UA becomes a lot stronger.
The candi might seem a bit weak at first sight, but I think its maybe the strongest aspect of the civ. Try to get many coastal cities with candis, then create trade routes into civs with different religions than yours. 2 base faith + 2 for your religion + 2 for other religion you connect to and get enough pressure from. A single candi can generate as much faith as a grand temple! Obviously you want to go full piety to take advantage of this, and get a good reformation belief such as the great people or the science building one.
The spice islanders UA lets you get wider with less unhappiness problems. I often find this can be hard to fully utilize until astronomy, there's usually only one suitable island early on. If I see an island with 1-3 tiles and some sea resources around, I usually go for it.
I usually make a few kris swordsmen, get good upgrades for them and keep them around for protection. Infantry with +1 movement and 2 attacks is pretty darn powerful.
Note that I've mostly been playing on continents maps with them, on archipelago the UA becomes a lot stronger.
Princeofnigeria
The illustrious
I'm not.
seancolorado
Deity
I'm not part of the upper echelon of Deity players around here, but I speak in-depth just because I've played with them a few times and believe I have a good general grasp on them for varying playstyles and difficulties.
Map type: Continents/Continents Plus is a possible map type but with so many variables already in Indonesia's Uniques the best maps are Small Continents and Archipelago
Victory: Diplomatic or Domination. Why Diplomatic? You need to trade your copies of the nutmeg, cloves and pepper to maximize their UA. This requires you to be friendly with at least one or more opposing civs. And diplomatic victories require money. Little known fact is that the unique resources give you a base +2 gold in addition to the gold you get from trading them. Why Domination? If you don't have anywhere to settle to take advantage of your unique resources, just take over an enemy civ on a different continent and you will get the resource anyway. Science is an option, but it is with any Civ in BNW. And if there isn't a Brazil or France on the map, don't be afraid to keep your culture doors open.
UU Kris Swordsman: If you don't have iron, consider settling your 'unique luxury resource city' on a new continent that does. If there still isn't any anywhere, consider trading for it. This UU is really up to you. You can let the types of random promotions dictate the way you play, or you can continue pursuing your original plan. Don't be afraid to switch towards a defensive (or offensive) posture even if you didn't plan it - this is a unit that forces you to think on your feet but the outcomes can be very rewarding. (Random tip: The random promotion stays on upgrade even if you haven't activated it.)
UB Candi: This building favors Diplomatic more than Domination because of the faith yields later in the game. You get +2 faith as a base - really try hard to settle on rivers. (Remember, with any civ rivers are good because they provide a trade route boost, or at least someone said.) When other civs are sending trade routes to you, they are exerting their religious pressure. So if you play friendly with as many civs as you can, having up to +10 faith per Candi (something like that) which can be more common than you think with 4 separate religions traveling in (or 3 religions traveling in, if you founded your own religion). Do not underestimate the power of Candi and the ability of Faith as a game-changer in BNW.
Social Policies: You can't go wrong with any of Tradition, Liberty or Honor with Indonesia depending on your playstyle, but my personal favorite is Piety. The Candi synergizes with Religious Tolerance SP, and if you are swimming in faith from Candi late in the game you can use that faith for the Reformation beliefs, many of which synergize with Indonesia. Exploration is a really good tree to unlock for Indonesia as you are likely to have more coastal cities than your average civ. Particularly on archipelago maps - Treasure Fleets SP makes you money like there's no tomorrow.
EDIT: Apparently this is a thing: "Indonesia's UA guarantees their first few cities will have +0.5
resource bonus." From that recent thread about how money works in BNW
Map type: Continents/Continents Plus is a possible map type but with so many variables already in Indonesia's Uniques the best maps are Small Continents and Archipelago
Victory: Diplomatic or Domination. Why Diplomatic? You need to trade your copies of the nutmeg, cloves and pepper to maximize their UA. This requires you to be friendly with at least one or more opposing civs. And diplomatic victories require money. Little known fact is that the unique resources give you a base +2 gold in addition to the gold you get from trading them. Why Domination? If you don't have anywhere to settle to take advantage of your unique resources, just take over an enemy civ on a different continent and you will get the resource anyway. Science is an option, but it is with any Civ in BNW. And if there isn't a Brazil or France on the map, don't be afraid to keep your culture doors open.
UU Kris Swordsman: If you don't have iron, consider settling your 'unique luxury resource city' on a new continent that does. If there still isn't any anywhere, consider trading for it. This UU is really up to you. You can let the types of random promotions dictate the way you play, or you can continue pursuing your original plan. Don't be afraid to switch towards a defensive (or offensive) posture even if you didn't plan it - this is a unit that forces you to think on your feet but the outcomes can be very rewarding. (Random tip: The random promotion stays on upgrade even if you haven't activated it.)
UB Candi: This building favors Diplomatic more than Domination because of the faith yields later in the game. You get +2 faith as a base - really try hard to settle on rivers. (Remember, with any civ rivers are good because they provide a trade route boost, or at least someone said.) When other civs are sending trade routes to you, they are exerting their religious pressure. So if you play friendly with as many civs as you can, having up to +10 faith per Candi (something like that) which can be more common than you think with 4 separate religions traveling in (or 3 religions traveling in, if you founded your own religion). Do not underestimate the power of Candi and the ability of Faith as a game-changer in BNW.
Social Policies: You can't go wrong with any of Tradition, Liberty or Honor with Indonesia depending on your playstyle, but my personal favorite is Piety. The Candi synergizes with Religious Tolerance SP, and if you are swimming in faith from Candi late in the game you can use that faith for the Reformation beliefs, many of which synergize with Indonesia. Exploration is a really good tree to unlock for Indonesia as you are likely to have more coastal cities than your average civ. Particularly on archipelago maps - Treasure Fleets SP makes you money like there's no tomorrow.
EDIT: Apparently this is a thing: "Indonesia's UA guarantees their first few cities will have +0.5
resource bonus." From that recent thread about how money works in BNWToodleElNoodos
Warlord
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EDIT: Apparently this is a thing: "Indonesia's UA guarantees their first few cities will have +0.5
Just to clarify that from the thread. When you trade with a caravan or cargo ship, it considers what resources around the two cities that are not in common. Since no other city will EVER have spices in common, all trades from that city and to that city will guarantee the trader +0.5g or +1g to that trade route income. So it kinda works with you and against you, but hey, hopefully no one wants to conquer you (unless you're the Dutch)!
Now to just find a nice spot to settle...
I played them diplomatic on a small islands map. I had a pretty good happiness bonus and my trade island that was covered in posts and had east india has some whales and gold along with it's two resources giving it a great modifier when trading.
The AI couldn't resist my city so all AI's were shooting ships to meet me. It was a huge map with max AI's and max city states.
The AI couldn't resist my city so all AI's were shooting ships to meet me. It was a huge map with max AI's and max city states.
I played Indonesia on immortal, few days ago, and won through scientific victory (first victory, and second game in BNW), ahead of France and their expected cultural Victory, around turn 370 (somewhere around 1950s)
I played a random map and got continents. On the whole map there were two continents and only two one hexagon tiles (islands) to acquire all unique resources (nutmeg, cloves and pepper). I played long time with two cities, at some time got a third one, and settled fourth just before the end (it is surprise that city spamming AI did not settle there sooner. I kept it safe in some shorter period with a unit, though). I settled the last one just to see what is the last luxury resource
I had great relationship with everybody, held first World Congress, built Porcelain Tower, declared friendship with literally every other civ, finished rationalism, and have been doing research agreements constantly until last 35 turns (by that time I was far ahead, finished Hubble, and produced numerous scientists which boosted final science leap themselves). To be in great relationship, I suffered by proposing arts funding resolution and similar non beneficial ones, and France was very close due to that, but I managed not to be annihilated by their 10 times bigger army. At one point I was delayed in Science victory, when few AIs were plotting against me, so I had to pump military (advanced but small in numbers) to avoid being attacked. It made a significant drawback, but at the end I think I managed to beat France by some 10 turns or more...
I can say that if you play diplomacy well, you can benefit from new resources, trade them well, and then you are most prone to win diplomatic or scientific victory. I did not manage to match France in cultural/ tourism sense. I have not resisted their tourism influence, although I had Hermitage, museums, opera houses, around 8 Wonders etc. France was in my game cultural superpower and I won, because they have not influenced lone Hiawatha on another continent. I would say cultural victory is toughest of four, for Indonesia. Domination is also, in my opinion a tough choice for them. UU does not seem strong enough, there are much stronger units available, so in my opinion go towards Diplomatic or Scientific victory.
If you go through liberty and piety trees and manage to build a lot of cities, their Unique Building can help a lot. Than again, I would say that would be more beneficial for keeping you happy/ rich, giving you more possibilities for befriending city states and once again push you in direction of Diplomatic victory
I played a random map and got continents. On the whole map there were two continents and only two one hexagon tiles (islands) to acquire all unique resources (nutmeg, cloves and pepper). I played long time with two cities, at some time got a third one, and settled fourth just before the end (it is surprise that city spamming AI did not settle there sooner. I kept it safe in some shorter period with a unit, though). I settled the last one just to see what is the last luxury resource
I had great relationship with everybody, held first World Congress, built Porcelain Tower, declared friendship with literally every other civ, finished rationalism, and have been doing research agreements constantly until last 35 turns (by that time I was far ahead, finished Hubble, and produced numerous scientists which boosted final science leap themselves). To be in great relationship, I suffered by proposing arts funding resolution and similar non beneficial ones, and France was very close due to that, but I managed not to be annihilated by their 10 times bigger army. At one point I was delayed in Science victory, when few AIs were plotting against me, so I had to pump military (advanced but small in numbers) to avoid being attacked. It made a significant drawback, but at the end I think I managed to beat France by some 10 turns or more...
I can say that if you play diplomacy well, you can benefit from new resources, trade them well, and then you are most prone to win diplomatic or scientific victory. I did not manage to match France in cultural/ tourism sense. I have not resisted their tourism influence, although I had Hermitage, museums, opera houses, around 8 Wonders etc. France was in my game cultural superpower and I won, because they have not influenced lone Hiawatha on another continent. I would say cultural victory is toughest of four, for Indonesia. Domination is also, in my opinion a tough choice for them. UU does not seem strong enough, there are much stronger units available, so in my opinion go towards Diplomatic or Scientific victory.
If you go through liberty and piety trees and manage to build a lot of cities, their Unique Building can help a lot. Than again, I would say that would be more beneficial for keeping you happy/ rich, giving you more possibilities for befriending city states and once again push you in direction of Diplomatic victory
Is this true? So if you conquer a city on another continent it gets a resource and becomes impossible to raze? Do you have to annex it or does it work for puppets, too?
PhilBowles
Deity
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I've also been playing wide and religiously. They've versatile and able to go for most VCs - if you want 'economic' diplo, they get a lot of income from selling their spices. The only BNW game I've so far won was with Indonesia, an accidental domination (I always forget that capturing capitals, rather than destroying civs, is the domination condition, and this was a duel map). In my current game I'm gearing up for a diplo or science victory (with the former likely to hit first). Indonesia may be able to churn out more missionaries than anyone with faith yields from the candi, which is a very good way of getting World Religion delegates in the World Congress (alternatively you can go with the tourism Reformation Belief and Cathedrals and faith-spam religious buildings).
I honestly don't know why people think this - it's struck me as the strongest UB in the expansion since it was revealed. And don't neglect the fact that it's still a Garden (as I admittedly have; I was late building one in my GS city), quite aside from the fact that you'll rarely get less than 6 faith a turn from each candi even without playing to maximise religious spread to your city.
I honestly don't know why people think this - it's struck me as the strongest UB in the expansion since it was revealed. And don't neglect the fact that it's still a Garden (as I admittedly have; I was late building one in my GS city), quite aside from the fact that you'll rarely get less than 6 faith a turn from each candi even without playing to maximise religious spread to your city.
PhilBowles
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This pretty closely describes my experience in my current game.
monkspider
Warlord
Good post, this is pretty much how I have been playing them too. I always play random maps and I started off on a large island with no small islands nearby. I found that going wide around the Industrial/Renaissance era really paid off and catapulted me to the world leader in score/tech. I ended up settling a new city on an island I found with caravels and then settling on a cushy spot on the main continent all the other civs were on. I really found Indonesia to be a fun Civ and they are going to be one of my favorites.
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I'm playing Indonesia right now on a Continents map. I went semi-wide early to settle all the luxuries I could find between me and Rome. My capital is actually inland, not on the coast. It is a Salt start though. I have seven cities, only one of which is on an island as yet. Happiness hasn't been too much of an issue because I had a lot of Salt to trade for other luxuries.
It took me a while to get decent trade routes going because I am semi-isolated in the far north. I was trading Nutmeg for gold to help make up for it. Once I got harbors though, I could finally trade with Carthage, who is pretty much the only other civ, out of 7 on my continent, that has any coastal cities.
The Candis have been amazing. I threw up Pagodas like Habitat for Humanity does houses. Hopefully soon I can find a religious trade partner across the ocean to send me some of their religion to more of my Candi cities.
I went Liberty-Piety. Several civs have already beat me to Reformation Beliefs, but GbtG is still available, and that's the one I'm banking on. Then I will be able to buy any Great Person I want on my Faith Express card. It makes up for Liberty not having any Great Person type available for Faith purchase.
Unfortunately I only have 4 iron in my vicinity, so I only have 4 Kris S-men. Two have gotten their Magic Promotions so far. One has Heroism, which is the Great General aura. It also applies to the unit itself, so it has strength slightly greater than a Pikeman now. The other has Ambition which is the +50% offense, -20% defense. On offense it has 21 strength, the same as a Longswordsman. It is awesome. I'm going to find some barb camps for the other two before I research steel, so I can replace them if I have to.
My end goal is to go for a Cultural Victory. I think the Candis really give Indonesia a religion-based versatility. Anything that can be bought with Faith, Indonesia can buy faster.
It took me a while to get decent trade routes going because I am semi-isolated in the far north. I was trading Nutmeg for gold to help make up for it. Once I got harbors though, I could finally trade with Carthage, who is pretty much the only other civ, out of 7 on my continent, that has any coastal cities.
The Candis have been amazing. I threw up Pagodas like Habitat for Humanity does houses. Hopefully soon I can find a religious trade partner across the ocean to send me some of their religion to more of my Candi cities.
I went Liberty-Piety. Several civs have already beat me to Reformation Beliefs, but GbtG is still available, and that's the one I'm banking on. Then I will be able to buy any Great Person I want on my Faith Express card. It makes up for Liberty not having any Great Person type available for Faith purchase.
Unfortunately I only have 4 iron in my vicinity, so I only have 4 Kris S-men. Two have gotten their Magic Promotions so far. One has Heroism, which is the Great General aura. It also applies to the unit itself, so it has strength slightly greater than a Pikeman now. The other has Ambition which is the +50% offense, -20% defense. On offense it has 21 strength, the same as a Longswordsman. It is awesome. I'm going to find some barb camps for the other two before I research steel, so I can replace them if I have to.
My end goal is to go for a Cultural Victory. I think the Candis really give Indonesia a religion-based versatility. Anything that can be bought with Faith, Indonesia can buy faster.
ixias
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I played my first Brave New World game as Indonesia and had a great time! They're a very versatile civilization that offers a lot of different options for victory.
I played an Archipelago map and managed to settle 4 cities on different islands. I went Tradition since it seemed to fit with Indonesia's 4-city theme. Let my capital grow while building up to the National College, then shot 3 Settlers in a row on nearby islands (no
problems thanks to the uniques) and let them grow. I used trade routes to grow all my cities to around 7-10 pop, then shifted to other trading partners to boost gold. I had 2 cities with rivers, so my Candis were generating pretty decent amounts of faith.
Social Policies: Opened Piety and took Organized Religion, then filled out Tradition, filled out Aesthetics, finished Piety, opened Exploration and took Maritime Infrastructure, then went into Freedom and filled a decent amount out there. The main reason for Exploration was so I could build the Louvre, but the extra production helped since all my cities were coastal.
Victory Condition: I was in a pretty good position to win either a Culture Victory or a Diplomatic Victory, but ended up going Culture. Between the National Epic, Candi, Aesthetics, and Arts Funding (World Congress) I was generating a lot of Artists, Musicians, and Writers.
I played an Archipelago map and managed to settle 4 cities on different islands. I went Tradition since it seemed to fit with Indonesia's 4-city theme. Let my capital grow while building up to the National College, then shot 3 Settlers in a row on nearby islands (no
problems thanks to the uniques) and let them grow. I used trade routes to grow all my cities to around 7-10 pop, then shifted to other trading partners to boost gold. I had 2 cities with rivers, so my Candis were generating pretty decent amounts of faith.Social Policies: Opened Piety and took Organized Religion, then filled out Tradition, filled out Aesthetics, finished Piety, opened Exploration and took Maritime Infrastructure, then went into Freedom and filled a decent amount out there. The main reason for Exploration was so I could build the Louvre, but the extra production helped since all my cities were coastal.
Victory Condition: I was in a pretty good position to win either a Culture Victory or a Diplomatic Victory, but ended up going Culture. Between the National Epic, Candi, Aesthetics, and Arts Funding (World Congress) I was generating a lot of Artists, Musicians, and Writers.
My fifth game in BNW, I played as Indonesia on the British Isles map. I spawned in northern Scotland. 75 turns in, I settled a city on Mainland, Orkney and got 2 free nutmeg. Then I settled a third city on the Isle of Harris and got cloves. Then Ethiopia declared war on me and because I was playing on Immortal, a much higher difficulty than mine (King), I got my ass whooped.
I played as Indonesia once. I opened tradition, got hanging garden for free candi in my capitol, and found it very easy to expand to 7 cities by 500 AD with the bonus luxuries. Then the game got kinda boring because I'd outclassed everyone and I ran about for 4 hours playing "world police" until I won a science victory.
Abraxis
☮
In my opinion, the best thing about Indonesia is their versatility, rather than some of the other more specialized Civs, Indo can start a game with no plan what-so-ever, look at their surroundings, then figure out how best to make them synergize with one of their traits.
As an example, a lot of people above are saying to go piety. That's good, you'll get +2 from your candi, and you'll be able to pump out religious buildings and units. But if you decide not to, you can instead use them in conjunction with your UA at strategically placed island trade ports with the extra diversity to farm piety to buy great people come industrial and totally forget about founding your own religion.
Alternately, instead of using your UA to make 3/4 resource trade hub ports, you could just get those island cities down wherever as quick as possible just for the unique resources to take advantage of the extra happiness or happiness and gold.
Their theme is being able to adapt to diversity. Looking for some gambit to use every game isn't really in line with that, they're meant to mesh with whatever situation they're in for the most part. Their Abilities can be directed towards helping with any victory type.
As for the Kris soldiers, I took over a 24 strength walled city + composite bowman with four of them (2x invulnerable, 1 heroic, 1 restless) last game.
As an example, a lot of people above are saying to go piety. That's good, you'll get +2 from your candi, and you'll be able to pump out religious buildings and units. But if you decide not to, you can instead use them in conjunction with your UA at strategically placed island trade ports with the extra diversity to farm piety to buy great people come industrial and totally forget about founding your own religion.
Alternately, instead of using your UA to make 3/4 resource trade hub ports, you could just get those island cities down wherever as quick as possible just for the unique resources to take advantage of the extra happiness or happiness and gold.
Their theme is being able to adapt to diversity. Looking for some gambit to use every game isn't really in line with that, they're meant to mesh with whatever situation they're in for the most part. Their Abilities can be directed towards helping with any victory type.
As for the Kris soldiers, I took over a 24 strength walled city + composite bowman with four of them (2x invulnerable, 1 heroic, 1 restless) last game.
crawf0rd
The One and Only
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Same way I played (successfully) as the ottomans in vanilla. ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE. Get 6 kris with uber promotions (its worth it even if you have to throw out a few) then take some cities (get them on other continents, then nutmeg will grow out of the ground suddenly!) then maybe settle down as a wide empire.
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