How best to use this start location?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Hans Lemurson, Feb 19, 2006.

  1. Hans Lemurson

    Hans Lemurson Prince

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    This is what I started out with:

    It was fairly self-evident to settle on-site.

    Got some gold from the hut.

    Let's see...9 floodplains, 5 grassland (3 forested), 2 plains (1 forested), 2 grass-hills (one with a piggy), 2 plains-hills (1 with gold). I see food and commerce in this city's future.

    I'm not quite sure where to go from here though...what path I should aim for, how fast should I try to expand. It wouldn't normally be a problem, but this is the best starting location I've seen for Monarch level, and I don't want to waste it.

    Any advice on how I should develop this start? (I'm fairly sure I want that piggy pasturized asap, but beyond that I'm a bit stumped.)

    For your pleasure: View attachment 116837
     
  2. Jotakami

    Jotakami Chieftain

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    It might have been wise to move 1 tile west and settle, to get the corn in your fat cross... but that's neither here nor there, at this point. I would suggest mining before animal husbandry, because working that gold mine will give you nearly double your science output. That's worth slowing down your city's growth no matter what, if you ask me. Since you're Egypt and start with Agriculture, you can just farm a few flood plains instead of going straight for the pigs, and still have a decent growth rate after working the gold mine. After mining, you can choose whatever tech you want... even go for Judaism if you want an early religion; that gold mine will let you out-tech the AI for a little while. As far as long-term city use... well, if you have stone nearby, hook it up quickly and build the Pyramids, and then make this your GPP farm + science city. You could still do this without stone, although it might take a few chops. Otherwise, I would say pick GPP farm or super-science city and stick with one. This is almost the best non-coastal spot I've ever seen for a GPP farm, but since it's your capital, you can take advantage of Bureaucracy and turn it into one hell of a science city. The call is yours, but... like I said, if you have stone nearby, or not, Pyramids->Representation is a wonderful option.
     
  3. xdeath2

    xdeath2 Chieftain

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    After researching AH, research into mining and then to bronze working and chop out early warriors/settlers/workers. You've got a great economic starting spot so you can suppot some nice early expansion and you don't have to worry about building obelisks/libraries right away. Focus on defense and expanding. That's what I would do anyways
     
  4. Hans Lemurson

    Hans Lemurson Prince

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    Hmm...Intruiging. Since I already have agriculture, I'd be able to develop that corn quickly, and the movement wouldn't cost me a turn, the pigs or the gold, that would be pretty spiffy. I guess I just went with the "When in doubt, obey the blue circle", since default starting-locations have a tendency to have useful resources in their immediate radius. It would have cost me 2 floodplains, and gained me an un-irrigated corn, though yield-density is of primary importance in the beginning. I was also thinking that the corn would be used to feed my second city-location, but I guess that came at the cost of a truly amazing food-center.

    Guess my "settle on site" wans't quite as much of a "No-brainer" as I thought.

    Really? Huh...I wouldn't be able to utilize that hill until I was at least size-2, so I figured I could wait.

    ***Edit***
    Update: 3000BC

    1000 years later, it is almost time to build my second city. I'm not quite sure where is should go though. I have found about 4 good to decent locations, but I am not sure quite where I should aim first.

    Location 1: This city will be rubbing elbows with Ghandi's capitol, but this is not so much of a risk, since I am creative. The only reason I would build this in favor of Location 2 is that this one would nab me some sugar. Sugar is good, but is it that good?
    Location 2: Misses the sugar, but makes up for it with a dye and a bunch more floodplains. 2 Dye, 2 Wine, Cattle, 5 floodplains, and is on the "Nile Grande". Safer from Ghandi's corrupting influence.
    Location 3: Gold and Corn. What can I say? It'll grab some more gold for me, and keep Peter from getting it. Is also on the Nile Grande.
    Location 4: Corn, Sheep, Dye, 2 floodplains, hills n' forests. This has the makings of a rather awesome production-city in the future, so long as I don't chop too many forests. It's off the Nile Grande, but can be connected fairly easily. I don't know yet whether it'll have any iron (or coal) to benefit from a great-forge, but I won't have to worry about that for a while.

    I'm leaning towards Location 2, for another possible commercial-city. Location 4 is close to me and far from others, so I'm fairly sure I can nab it. I guess I could live without the gold from Location 3, since it just doesn't have any of the awesome attributes of the other sites.

    I have planned out a fair number of other cities, including a possible 3rd or 4th city in the NW for a gold and sugar grab. Assuming nobody neats me. I think I might be looking at a very fast, early expansion, to make sure I get all the locations I need. Since this is a Terra map, a Coastal-city is not optional, but I spy a good locale or two down south. Even up north maybe...I could have a lake & coastal city up there. I might be able to pull off a fast expansion, since so many of my city-locations are going to be pulling in the gold. I might attempt an early religion (probably Judaism at this point, but hinduism is still unclaimed...) to help pay for this. There are just too many awesome city-locations here to let them fall to the enemy. I suppose that I could always make up for that with conquest later, but I have no horses as of yet :(.
     
  5. Lord Chambers

    Lord Chambers Emperor

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    How's your health level in the city? I once had such a fantastic start.

     
  6. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

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    Location 4 is a no brainer for a second city IMO. I disagree that moving west 1 square is a better idea, in the long run having a second city utilising that grass and consequently having a higher prod in you capital will pay dividends. An almost dream start that short of having two cows or more or something ridiculous, have fun with it:) Health shmealth the benefits outweight the disadvantages in this case.
     
  7. Hans Lemurson

    Hans Lemurson Prince

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    LOL, yeah, I saw that image when you posted it before. I'm a little better than that, I only have 9 flood-plains, but my health is bad enough that if I chop any of my forests I'll have unhealthiness at size-3. Fortunately Pigs, Corn and Cows can be hooked up to my network without terribly much delay.

    A granary can also buy me another health, but I have enough food here that I don't think it'll slow me down too much.

    Update: It turns out that Location 3 has 2 gold in its theoretical radius. Now it's something to consider, though there sure are a lot of plains...

    Updated Update: The Russians nabbed that double-gold spot, but left my corn alone. There is now a Corn-Pig-Ivory city I can build right near my capitol. In other news, due to AI laziness I was able to found Hinduism. Memphis (built on Location 2) is now the Hindu holy city. The Nile Grande is 44 tiles long (counting only it's longest branch) and I have not found both ends. I know however that into Mali. It is a fairly safe bet that Hinduism will spread to mansa Musa and Peter, since they both have cities along the glorious concourse. Ghandi is buddhist, but I don't think it will spread as fast as hinduism, so i can probably make a fairly powerful Hindu-bloc. Horses exist on the other side of Mansu Musa, but I am fairly sure those are out of my reach.
     
  8. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Actually I would have seriously considered moving your start Settler 1 tile NORTH, or 1 tile NE.

    Why? That desert to the NW concerns me. That was the first thing I noticed. I wasn't so worried about the corn. Who cares if the corn is in your capital. You already have pigs and tons of flood plains.

    What matters is (1) getting the corn, period, (2) your eventual city layout.

    Basically, I'm okay with my 2nd or 3rd city getting that corn.

    My own goal is to have a group of 5-6 cities in polar array (a circle) around my capitol. If I have a strip of desert, I either want to avoid it by having my cities butt up against it (but not ON it) or by planting a city on a desert tile itself.

    Given that there appears to be a strip of desert up there, I probably would have avoided it altogether. Easiest way (viewing only the start screenshot, not the successive screenshots later) is to move the start settler 1 spot NE, and then put city #2 on that green hill to the west.

    Wodan
     
  9. scienide09

    scienide09 Regular lurker

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    With all that food, looks like a good spot for a GP farm to me.
    Personally, I don't understand why you're building a worker first, then a settler a few turns later. You're slowing your early city growth to a crawl by doing this, meaning loss of commerce, production and food for the next however many turns. While the loss will eventually balance out, a good start is essential at the higher levels.
    Holding off on the worker until your city was already at size two, and a settler once at three or four, would be better. In the meantime, you can fortify a warrior, and sent out another do aid your initial wanderer to discover the land, especially the blacked-out area east of your city. There could be an excellent city-site there, or a way to block Peter from expanding nothward...
     
  10. Hans Lemurson

    Hans Lemurson Prince

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    Generally, growing one more size in a city does not help its worker/settler production by much. A City-center produces 2+1 food/production, and each successive citizen only adds 1 food/production to that (since it eats 2 food). However, I did build a warrior after the worker, and so my ciy was at size-2 and working a gold-mine when I began on the settler.

    As for city-placement...tell me what you think of my empire now: 1AD


    Ok, the Russians started it. Don't blame me for conquering them! I bought horses from the Americans in exchange for Cows and Gold, which I only had one of at the time. It payed off, since my war-chariots cut off Peter's iron before he could field more than 1 spearman.

    Memphis was my 2nd city. Floodplans, cows, dyes, wine. It will have a decent commercial yield, especially since it's the Hindu holy city, a religion which holds sway in about 30% of the world. Has health issues since it retains a fair bit of jungle, but that is being cleared up.

    Elephantine was my 3rd city, and funnily enough, my ivory source! This'll be a good commercial city, especially since it's the Confucian holy city now! This one took the eastern corn. Wow, I have a lot of good commercial sites...

    Heliopolis was my 4th city. I was mostly right that it was too far from anyone else to be taken from me (the americans got a city just at the comfort-zone, but it is now sandwiched between me and the wicked french). This is already my production capital, since it has the most hills out of all my cities, and the food to use them. I hope it has coal buried under one of those hills! If not, Rostov can take the ironworks later.

    Alexandria was my 5th city and first first (sort of) coastal city (I have to sail through Antium and Rome to get to the ocean XD). I built that one for the future...it is not quite breaking even yet. Once I develop its silk and gold it'll be fine though. It would be more developed, but the Russians entreatied me to take over management for their empire right when I built it.

    The Russian Cities seem to be decently placed, Novgorod will be a nice naval-production facility, and St. Peterspurg has twin-gold. I rather over-expanded when conquering the russians, and my pocketbook is hurting now. Fortunately I just got Code of Laws so I can build courthoses, and I will probably trade around for currency. I'm sure it'll all pay off in the end.

    The main stretch of the Nile Grande measures in at 52 segments long, the southern fork is 10 segments, so you have a contiguous river of 62 segments.

    If you want a better view of how I'm doing, here's the save: View attachment 116912
    It was really hard to get all the relevant information into a single screen-cap.
     
  11. Fihri

    Fihri Chieftain

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    If you dont mind, can you post a saved game around 500 AD or so?

    i am trying to master noble still, and following these help.
     
  12. Hans Lemurson

    Hans Lemurson Prince

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    500AD? Hmm that'll be in a bit.

    What are you wanting, a series of savegame files to show the progression of the game? I might be able to do that.
     
  13. Fihri

    Fihri Chieftain

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    Yes, i find a series of saved games helps me learn tricks pretty fast.

    So if 500AD is too far ahead, anyone showing a significant change of events works.

    For instance, i tried your last saved game 2 ways... once by makeing peace with russia and concentrating on the french.

    Once by trying to finish russia.
     
  14. Hans Lemurson

    Hans Lemurson Prince

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    View attachment 116965 Russians are toast, now comes the time to focus on building up my economy after the war. This means workers and cottages. The French are annoying.

    View attachment 116966 The French are still annoying, but Mansa Musa is worrisome. I'm badly out-teched by him, but I'm fairly sure I can manage to circumnavigate. My economy still has room for development.

    View attachment 116967 Must explore the New-World...find all the good city-locations and take them. Rice will be valuable since it'll give me 2 extra health my larger cities badly need. Well, not badly, but health is more of a limiting factor than happiness right now. Perhaps some horsies of my own would be good too, I don't want to have to keep importing them. I'm fighting a half-assed war against the French now, I'm not terribly eager for the majority of their city-locations, especially since i have so many of my own. I just want to keep them from beating up too badly on the Americans. I need to contain French power. I also need to race with Mansa Musa for colonizing the new-world, since he already has Astronomy (and has for some time).
     
  15. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    keep up posting pics and story
    very interesting thread!

    (i have a hard time with prince level, so you won't get advice from me)
     
  16. Fihri

    Fihri Chieftain

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    thanks!!

    Ill check these out after work
     

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