How big is immigration an issue on people's minds (USA and elsewhere)?

i actually don't think much about it save two situations;
a) when someone yells at me about how dangerous migrants are; if i go in discussion mode we'll go into actual stats and such and discuss the degree of actual danger
b) when immigrants i know have issues with naturalization, xenophobia and similar, then i'll try my best and help them

immigration, at least as is, is mostly an issue due to anxiety and that anxiety has to be dealt with. anxiety also leads to most native problems with foreigners in the modern west. so in regards to it having an impact on my own mind, i don't really think about it unless pressed or confronted, and admittedly there's a lot of confrontation re: the numerous hurdles immigrants have to go through to stay sane/alive.
 
The GOP has been feeding immigrant fear for a very long time.
 
I admit I think about it for several reasons. I am a migrant myself and the country I live in would throw me out the second I commit a crime or overstay illegally. Also, my country of origin (Germany) doesn't allow me to hold double citizenship but happily gives away a second citizenship to certain migrants. Travesty. when I was younger, I welcomed the idea of a shrinking population in Germany. Since 2015, there have been loads of migrants, last year alone 2million. Can't be good and the result of such craziness can be seen by the rise of far right ideologies.
 
I am a migrant myself and the country I live in would throw me out the second I commit a crime or overstay illegally.
Do you agree with that policy?
Also, my country of origin (Germany) doesn't allow me to hold double citizenship but happily gives away a second citizenship to certain migrants.
That is really unfair for expats!
when I was younger, I welcomed the idea of a shrinking population in Germany
What was your reasoning for welcoming that idea?

Also sorry for being annoying with my questions:), but I am legit interested in your answers.
 
Expats no longer live there nor contribute
My country has always enjoyed contributions to local economies from expats in the millions of euros. Portugal has always been a poor country that has produced many waves of expats.
 
My country has always enjoyed contributions to local economies from expats in the millions of euros. Portugal has always been a poor country that has produced many waves of expats.
How do expats contribute to the local economy?
 
Our expats build homes here, come in vacations any time they can. Our national statistics actually evaluate expats contributions every year.
 
I'd imagine it's very much a cost-benefit exercise for the country in question then (not to mention consideration r.e. citizenship and benefits offered, e.g. voting). I know a bunch of expats (historically, too, some of my relatives have emigrated), not all of them came back.
 
My country has always enjoyed contributions to local economies from expats in the millions of euros. Portugal has always been a poor country that has produced many waves of expats.
We have this in the city i grew up in
51695348190_21e719d2a8_b.jpg
 
I'd imagine it's very much a cost-benefit exercise for the country in question then (not to mention consideration r.e. citizenship and benefits offered, e.g. voting). I know a bunch of expats (historically, too, some of my relatives have emigrated), not all of them came back.
Expats typically bring their income (from their home country) into the local economy and thereby grow the local economy. If my wife and I moved to Portugal we would live off of our US income base and add all of that spending to the place we choose to live. That is the reason why so many US cities court retirees to come to their cities. AZ and FL both grew rich because they have catered to retirees for decades. Mexican expat communities do the same. Italy is giving away run down house for 1 euro to get rich foreigners to buy them, fix them up and spend time there spending money. Tourism does the same thing until it gets too overwhelming.
 
Expats typically bring their income (from their home country) into the local economy and thereby grow the local economy. If my wife and I moved to Portugal we would live off of our US income base and add all of that spending to the place we choose to live. That is the reason why so many US cities court retirees to come to their cities. AZ and FL both grew rich because they have catered to retirees for decades. Mexican expat communities do the same. Italy is giving away run down house for 1 euro to get rich foreigners to buy them, fix them up and spend time there spending money. Tourism does the same thing until it gets too overwhelming.
Oh I completely agree they spend where they are. I'm talking about what they pay back home (if they do).

If migrants cost money just as expats do, there's little reason to distinguish either on grounds of cost alone. Working out which expats pay X back is going to be quite the administrative exercise, and I don't see calls to hound house that aren't paying their dues back in their country of origin.

Ordnael talking about Portugese expats generating money through houses built (in Portugal) doesn't seem to be how it works at scale. My grandparents sold their house in York (twice). They weren't generating much of anything (first time was a decade of work in the Czech Republic, second time was about as long retired in Spain). Anecdotally again.
 
Do you agree with that policy?

That is really unfair for expats!

What was your reasoning for welcoming that idea?

Also sorry for being annoying with my questions:), but I am legit interested in your answers.
Do I agree with it? Well, of course Singapore (country in question) won't revoke my PR for a petty crime. They might simply not renew it the next time around. I have seen cases where it got revoked for more severe offenses. Seeing that even illegal migrants to Germany commit crimes and not being repatriated, I can fully understand people's frustrations. You move to a country, you better respect their laws and cultural norms.

Germany treating their own citizens (esp those abroad) poorly, has in my own experience a long tradition. Let me give you a few examples.
1. 1992 in Wellington, New Zealand. I was studying at the uni in Wellington back then, when some Indonesian classmates told me that they had been invited to their embassy to celebrate their National day combined with the fact that they had won their first Olympic Gold in Barcelona back then. I thought this was really nice. Not much later, with Germany's national day approaching, I decided to call the embassy to inquire about their own celebration. Mind you, it was early spring in New Zealand with hardly any tourists around. The entire uni had 2 German students. I called and the person answering replied my question about a potential celebration with: Do you have an invitation? No, so there.

2. Living in Singapore. Unless you are a high flyer expat, German embassy can't be bothered about your presence. There is zero information from them regarding anything important. Come election, they actually go all the way out to ensure you don't vote. You would have to fill in forms after forms to just get registered to vote, followed by the actual voting process. Now, that I live 25 years abroad, I am no longer allowed to vote at all. Compare this to my Japanese wife, the contrast couldn't be stronger. Every general election, their embassy sets up an air conditioned tent for them to vote in Singapore. They provide their citizens with regular updates on events and regulations.

3. As mentioned before, Germany's policy on citizenship. I might have considered taking up a second citizenship but this means I would have to surrender my German passport. I always assumed that Germany is just very strict with citizenship to find out, that people with for example turkish roots are given German citizenship even though they have still have Turkish citizenship. This then resulted in Erdogan campaigning in Germany for his reelection.

My reason for welcoming the idea of a shrinking population in Germany with an admittedly difficult transition period is simple. Germany (just like the entire world) has so many problems which are rooted in overpopulation, starting with housing, supply of energy, food etc. But no, Germany opened its door to allow millions of people to migrate without any proper plan how to deal with it. Housing is a disaster, cultural assimilation problematic etc etc. It's simple to me, Germany like other countries can't save the entire planet of 8 billion people. There would have to be controlled migration of skilled labor etc. Politicians have ignored this for the longest time and now reap what they sew.
 
Oh I completely agree they spend where they are. I'm talking about what they pay back home (if they do).

If migrants cost money just as expats do, there's little reason to distinguish either on grounds of cost alone. Working out which expats pay X back is going to be quite the administrative exercise, and I don't see calls to hound house that aren't paying their dues back in their country of origin.

Ordnael talking about Portugese expats generating money through houses built (in Portugal) doesn't seem to be how it works at scale. My grandparents sold their house in York (twice). They weren't generating much of anything (first time was a decade of work in the Czech Republic, second time was about as long retired in Spain). Anecdotally again.
I think most expats are accounted for in government records because they will have visas of some sort, rental agreements or house purchases, permanent addresses, and often a capital requirement to stay. Expats have money to spend and do so often in quantities larger than the locals. Immigrants act and are treated differently. Some may come with resources many probably don't. Expats generally arrive singly or in pairs. Immigrants can show up in large groups.
 
I think these are things greatly impacted by context vs. being innate and immovable (nor am I suggesting you're saying they are).

I simply see decisions on this driven by political pointscoring over actual economic concerns (as well as the ignoring of actual economic concerns unrelated to immigration). The expat thing is also interesting because it frequently relates to voting. Nevermind subsiding some dude in Gibraltar, why is he getting input on party choices that impact me and my children, that won't affect him in the slightest?

Coming back "home" for what is effectively a holiday from holiday I really can't stress enough isn't the same as living here. My grandparents integrated as best as they could in Prague. Work made it somewhat necessary I guess. They weren't as bothered in Spain (retirement), but still did better than most of the other expatriated locals. Still, the expats had a group. A community, where they all spoke English and didn't engage with the local culture.

There are a lot of parallels I could draw there to migrant families, or even places where first, second, third generation immigrants settle. We (generally) let perception get in the way of consistency when it comes to value judgements and "standards".
 
I do not see an objective distinction between immigrants and ex pats.

I regard it as more a question of the perspective of the narrator.

If someone from your country lives abroad, they are an emigrant or expat.

If someone from another country comes to live in your country, they are an immigrant.
 
Expats is a "recent' term that has a more nuanced meaning than the broader and historical "immigrant." I do not think that the 19th C floods of Irish, Germans, Italian or Chinese into the US would be called expats. I see expats as a subset of immigrants that have a different context.
 
Yeah, "expat" is generally used to describe someone who goes to a place for retirement, temporary white collar work, or being a "digital nomad".
Along with negative connotations of white dudes going to lower income countries to pretend they are 'alpha males' and pick up women.
 
Back
Top Bottom