How big is immigration an issue on people's minds (USA and elsewhere)?

[Gorbles]

A communal identity is many individual ones, in thier part.

Particularity when they're allowed to express local determination. But that's probably contentious in its messiness. A popular chunk of culture has defined localities as racist entities that need to be exploited by national control. Totally not self interest. Totally.

That doesn't answer my question r.e. gender identity. Are you going to?

 

[Farm Boy]

I think it does. Different identities are not the same, but they are all people and what they hold dear in thier quickly passing lives.

 

[danjuno]

That's still sorta statist, control simply enforced by a state a bit later, and only after a migrant has presumably trespassed a law, but a state is still involved.

"Reacting to a problem is statist" is certainly a take.

 

[Lexicus]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/elon-musk-vows-war-over-h-1b-visa-program-amid-rift-with-some-trump-supporters-2024-12-28/

Lmao

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It's good to have goals: In the UAE 80% of the population are foreign workers.

Aren't there a lot of very wealthy people there, due to the oil and gas, so they prefer to hire from other countries?

Canada isn't in that situation. Twenty years ago, a woman from the Atlantic provinces told me on another gaming forum that she really did believe that the streets in Alberta are paved with gold, due to our O&G industries.

I told her that "The Alberta Advantage" is mostly a myth. It's a slogan, put out by successive governments, to attract people from other parts of Canada, many of whom stay awhile and then return East.

That said, one day I realized that only one of the slate of home care workers who came here was from somewhere other than the Philippines, and if I were to peg her original country, I'd guess somewhere in Northern Africa. Our premier has been pretty open in gleefully boasting about how she's going to hire more nurses and other health care workers from the Philippines.

How about making it possible for the Canadian-born ones to come back to work after the chaos years of the pandemic, or because they quit after the government committed all sorts of shenanigans with their contracts and fee schedules? I'm reminded of the '90s all over again, when I had the opportunity to tell off the Conservative candidate who came knocking on my door to ask for my vote. I told him that the graduates of the nursing program at Red Deer College were having to leave Red Deer, leave Alberta, and in some cases, leave Canada to find a job - because his government kept blowing up hospitals and doing other things that severely impacted the chances of these graduates being able to find jobs here.

He mumbled something about new hospitals being built and should be ready in "4 or 5 years." I asked him what these graduates were supposed to do NOW? I had quite a few of these women as my typing clients throughout their nursing degrees, for four years, and at the end of that time, some of them came to me to do their resumes and cover letters, and mentioned they were moving. One went to Arizona (came back later because she couldn't stand how it's All About The Money in the U.S.) and another went to Ireland.

They shouldn't have to do that. But with all this tinkering of the TFW rules, there's a new wave of Canadian professionals getting out of Alberta. They're being replaced by TFWs. Granted, some of incoming people will choose to stay and work toward getting citizenship. But far too many won't.

What I find interesting is that there were apparently record numbers of people crossing the US-Mexico border in 2021-23, but I didn't notice it in my daily life one bit. From a personal standpoint, immigration is rather low on the list of political issues I care about, so I'm surprised it has become so important in US politics since 2015. I tend to think we should make legal immigration easier and illegal immigration harder, but current rates of immigration seem basically fine to me.

I don't get the far-right xenophobia about immigrants in the US, because we are very much a nation of immigrants. A lot of my friends when I was a kid were children of immigrants. Some of my current friends are too, and I have befriended international students at college as well. Sometimes right-wingers like to talk about diversity weakening societies, but the world's most powerful country is made up of people whose ancestors came from all over the world to form a new society. A lot of our scientific and technical innovation comes from allowing bright scientists from elsewhere to come here to study and work.

With some people it's a matter of the "right" sort of immigrants. As in they don't mind the ones from Europe, but when Trump issued those executive orders way back, Canada was suddenly beset by tens of thousands of asylum seekers crossing the border illegally. Most of them didn't meet Canada's criteria for being granted asylum, but I predict this won't stop the next wave that will probably happen starting next year.

 

[Farm Boy]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/elon-musk-vows-war-over-h-1b-visa-program-amid-rift-with-some-trump-supporters-2024-12-28/

Lmao

It still surprises me that anyone ever thought he was more than a rich chud.

 

[Lexicus]

It still surprises me that anyone ever thought he was more than a rich chud.

Yes, it's absolutely shocking. Someone should do a running tally of how many campaign promises Trump has essentially already broken....but of course, due to political correctness, we have to find explanations for Trump support that aren't "seventy million dumbasses got conned by a conman".

 

[Farm Boy]

Nah, some of them are chuds, too.

Like the Oklahoma AG. Talk about a waste of human flesh.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, it's absolutely shocking. Someone should do a running tally of how many campaign promises Trump has essentially already broken....but of course, due to political correctness, we have to find explanations for Trump support that aren't "seventy million dumbasses got conned by a conman".

With Trump I don't pay any attention to what he says. Just what he does.

Facts won't matter.

He's made a heap of contradictory promises. I expect he'll blame Biden for state of economy and only honor things like tax cuts (for the rich).

 

[Valka D'Ur]

He's blaming Canada these days, accusing us of letting all those drug dealers into the U.S.

Somebody seriously needs to explain to him how border security works. It's not our job to decide who gets into the U.S. It's the Americans' job to do that.

 

[aelf]

Idk if you quite understood, it is acknowledged that there is no opposition to deportation in principle in most Trump supporters. That they are harsher than they may let on is not something I dispute.

What's speculated is that they're softer than they probably know themselves. If the question polled were "do you support detaining 3 million illegal immigrants in camps with harsh conditions for 4 years" the answer, even among Trump supporters, I imagine it's no. Realistically, that's inevitable if he follows through, and nah, I don't think there'll be much support of it, though I wouldn't expect any mass protests, either.

Trump said it, they wanna own the libs, the prime directive, but when push comes to shove, we will see a lotta Trump supporters start wavering.

I'm not saying that what they really think about the issue is significant. I'm pointing out that it's context-dependent. Therefore, addressing the context is a very valid way of addressing the issue.

And, furthermore, there's hence nothing socialist about pandering to anti-immigration sentiment because it's not based in any fundamental truth about social reality. Except that, as you say, when push comes to shove, few are going to like the implications of what they thought they believed in.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Here in Spain immigration is essential to keep the country running, and most people know it, at least the 12% of the population are immigrants. Otoh illegal immigration from north Africa entering illegally into Ceuta, Melilla and Canary islands (usually weaponized by Morocco) is a big headache, particularly unaccompanied minors. So it all depends on what kind of immigration we are talking about.

 

[Gorbles]

I think it does. Different identities are not the same, but they are all people and what they hold dear in thier quickly passing lives.

Ah, I see. So it is being conflated.

 

[Snowygerry]

^^ That’s a common, non-polite, opinion here yes, no more Muslims, people like to choose and differentiate between migrants.

Don’t know if that’s also the case in the US…

 

[Lexicus]

I mean, if racism is all we can think about. Frankly, I just function less well when there isn't any sky, nobody waves, and everyone drives like a bat out of hell, and many local businesses disappear and are replaced with 5 dollar general employees, so I try to stay home. But here they come to destroy it.

Which is why the answer is always, "they cling to racism" or some other hamfisted excuse justify being chuddy. I mean, at least they dress it up.

FYI Snowygerry was responding to an openly racist rant against Muslim immigrants by Ordnael which has now been deleted

 

[EvaDK]

FYI Snowygerry was responding to an openly racist rant against Muslim immigrants by Ordnael which has now been deleted

Moderator Action: The forum mods are aware and will deal with it appropriately. No need for anyone to continue down the same rabbit hole. Thanks. - EvaDK

 

[Voidwalkin]

"Reacting to a problem is statist" is certainly a take.

If the reaction requires a police force, yeah, it's statist. You need a bureaucracy and a government for one to function.

I'm not saying that what they really think about the issue is significant. I'm pointing out that it's context-dependent. Therefore, addressing the context is a very valid way of addressing the issue.

Yes. The context is "own the libs". I suppose the larger context is an ongoing reaction to cultural trending towards the liberal, disportionately embraced by professional and managerial classes. Probably spurred by liability law.

The specifics of immigration don't really matter so much, because the core premise, the implicit appeal, really boils down to "own the libs". For most Trump voters, the real targeted group is the libs(like always) moreso than immigrants themselves.

We will see if it plays out that way. The current ruckus of Bannon vs Musk on H1B visas appears decided, to Musk. The perturbed faithful I expect will quickly forget about it, provided they have a string of assertions of power over the liberal order to parade as victories, and they likely will. If it's really about immigration? We'll hear about it years from now.

 

[Zardnaar]

Here in Spain immigration is essential to keep the country running, and most people know it, at least the 12% of the population are immigrants. Otoh illegal immigration from north Africa entering illegally into Ceuta, Melilla and Canary islands (usually weaponized by Morocco) is a big headache, particularly unaccompanied minors. So it all depends on what kind of immigration we are talking about.

Spain is one of those countries that needs alot of immigrants.

 

[danjuno]

If the reaction requires a police force, yeah, it's statist.

Where did I say that?

 

[Snowygerry]

Well the thread is specifically about opinions that people do not like to express in public, even in opinion polls, but might still cause them to vote in a particular way in elections.

Sorry, didn’t want to cause a fuss here on the last day of the year

“Owning the libs” is something I never heard here, must be an American thing, but the opinion in the post I reacted to is common as dirt.