How big is immigration an issue on people's minds (USA and elsewhere)?

Here they work for cash under the table.
It means they're not paying income tax. It leaves them very open to be exploited.

Theoretically it cuts them off from access to schools, registration with a doctor. access to university etc. And buying property. They pay sales tax on stuff they buy.

So they're not paying into things like infrastructure or most things not funded by the local government. They might be indirectly paying local rates via rent.

Often they end up in the media with a sob story often about getting deported. Usually they want citizenship which qualifies them for welfare, pensions etc. But haven't paid into it. A good sob story is usually to try and get the immigration minister to make an exception.

Illegal immigrants aren't that big of a problem in raw numbers. A lot free load and try and scam the system though.

Ironically if they lie on documents it's easier to deport them. There's a good character requirement on visas. Means no lying on documents, fraud or criminal records or activities.

So if you lie about health status for example they can revoke visa or even citizenship.

Ones I linked to earlier scammed the system and paid tax for 6/20 years. Parents went bye bye kids got to stay (1 had citizenship 24 yo, 18 yo got residency).
Yes, I was talking about the US. In other countries, with a measure of actual welfare, they can be a drain on the system. At least to some extent.

In Argentina, healthcare and education (all the way up to university) was completely free even to foreigners and the undocumented until the current president started imposing fees on non-Argentinians. A move I'd support.

Obviously, my sympathy would evaporate if bad faith and criminality arises. But at least as far as the US is concerned, as it's been mentioned and with the system being restrictive, on-the-books as it is, the window for "freeloading" is pretty small. There's little welfare to exploit, to begin with. :crazyeye:
 
More guns, not butter.

But there's a lot of people mad at getting less of the former sent thier way even theoretically.

It's... interesting... to watch.

Edit: forgot the link
 
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Deadly knife attack reignites France’s politically charged immigration debate​

https://www.politico.eu/article/mul...rorism-france-immigration-debate-algeria/ARIS — French Prime Minister François Bayrou will hold an emergency meeting Wednesday to draw up a response to a deadly weekend knife attack in the Alsatian city of Mulhouse.
The alleged perpetrator of the incident is a 37-year-old Algerian citizen, a French Interior Ministry representative said. Interior Minister Bruno Retailleau said the suspect had a “schizophrenic profile” and had previously been expelled from France — but was subsequently barred from entering Algeria by local authorities.

“The Mulhouse assassin had been presented 10 times to the Algerian authorities so that his country of origin would accept that we send him back home,” Bayrou told reporters on Monday during a visit to the Paris International Agricultural Show. “It’s unacceptable.”
The attack, which President Emmanuel Macron described as an act of Islamist terrorism, has reignited debate in France on whether to rein in immigration amid a Europe-wide shift to the right. How the government responds will likely affect its increasingly strained relationship with Algeria, a former colony, and could have political ramifications for Bayrou and the increasingly popular Retailleau, who is vying for the lead of his conservative party, Les Républicains.

Within hours of the attack, Retailleau pinned the incident on what he called France’s insufficiently tough immigration laws, which lawmakers strengthened in late 2023.

“We need to change the rules. Enough is enough,” Retailleau said as he arrived in Mulhouse Saturday evening.

GettyImages-2201192237-1024x683.jpg
The attack, which President Emmanuel Macron described as an act of Islamist terrorism, has reignited debate in France on whether to rein in immigration amid a Europe-wide shift to the right. | Sebastien Bozon/AFP via Getty Images
While official figures show no spike in documented migration, Retailleau’s hardline position has been well received. His approval rating now makes him the most popular member of the government, according to a recent survey of 1,005 French voters conducted by polling institute Odoxa.

Perhaps because of this, the interior minister’s stance on immigration has been backed by key members of Macron’s centrist camp and by high-ranking government officials — including the prime minister. Bayrou even took fire from the left last month for claiming it felt like parts of France were being “flooded” with migrants.

The shift in attitude toward migration isn’t limited to France. Across the border in Germany, incoming conservative Chancellor Friedrich Merz has vowed to close the country’s borders to asylum seekers after an Afghan man was accused in January of attacking a group of preschoolers in a park, stabbing to death a 2-year-old boy and a man attempting to protect the children.
Merz’s victory on Sunday, and the historic performance of the far-right Alternative for Germany, were seen as both a vindication of his strategy and confirmation of Europe’s increasingly anti-immigrant tilt.

The repatriation issue​

Many French ministers have been reticent to publicly discuss policy specifics ahead of Wednesday’s meeting, although government spokesperson Sophie Primas told RTL on Monday that authorities may consider limiting the number of visas granted to Algerian nationals. Primas added that Bayrou’s government is also considering increasing the length of time authorities can detain undocumented migrants to allow for more time to negotiate repatriations.

Foreign Affairs Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said Wednesday ahead of the meeting that he would propose European-wide visa restrictions for countries who refuse to cooperate with French immigration authorities. He also proposed to reduce tariffs for countries more willing to cooperate.

A report from the French Court of Auditors estimated that only about 10 percent of expulsion measures had resulted in individuals actually leaving France.

“When you deliver an order to leave French territory, you need the country where the person is being deported to issue a consular pass,” said Charly Salkazanov, a lawyer specializing in immigration law. Salkazanov said the astonishingly low repatriation rate was due in part to the shaky legal justification for some deportation orders and the fraught diplomatic relations between France and many of the countries where it seeks to deport undocumented people.

Paris and Algiers have enjoyed an inconstant relationship since the North African country gained independence from its former colonizer in 1962 after years of bloodshed. Ties have become increasingly strained in recent years over who has sovereignty over Western Sahara; over Algeria’s detention of French-Algerian author Boulam Sansal; and due to a dispute over Algerian influencers accused of attempting to incite violence in France or against members of the Algerian opposition.

Retailleau has launched his own public crusade against the Algerian authorities, accusing them in January of seeking to “humiliate” France by refusing to accept an Algerian national expelled from French territory. The individual was detained for sharing videos on TikTok urging his followers to harm a critic of the Algerian regime. A series of Algerian nationalist content creators have since been arrested and are being prosecuted at Retailleau’s request.
 

Deadly knife attack reignites France’s politically charged immigration debate​

https://www.politico.eu/article/mul...rorism-france-immigration-debate-algeria/ARIS — French Prime Minister François Bayrou will hold an emergency meeting Wednesday to draw up a response to a deadly weekend knife attack in the Alsatian city of Mulhouse.

After hearing about the Gisele Pelicot case along with a French surgeon accused of raping 299 of his patients, this hysteria and panic over crimes committed by migrants looks especially ugly.
 
C'est la vie, eh?
 
I think deadly attacks committed by migrants that loathe the natives but love living on their taxes are very ugly.
 

Spanish city 'adopts' migrants who intervened in homophobic attack​

A Spanish city has honoured two Senegalese migrants for their heroism in trying to save a gay man beaten to death by a homophobic mob.

Ibrahima Diack and Magatte N'Diaye were given "adopted sons of the city" status in A Coruña on Monday in a formal ceremony recognising their actions.

The men were the only ones to intervene in July 2021, when Samuel Luiz was set upon by a group of men and kicked and punched outside a nightclub in the north-western city.

The 24-year-old later died of his injuries in hospital - an event which sparked national outrage and condemnation.

On Monday, at a formal ceremony in the city council's hall, Mayor Inés Rey described the migrants' actions as "pure altruism".

Footage of that night showed other bystanders watching on, some filming on mobiles, and the two being the only ones who intervened.

"That two undocumented migrants were the only ones who physically risked themselves to help the victim of a pack thirsting for horror leaves much food for thought and a series of lessons," Mayor Rey said.

"Thank you for your example in risking everything despite having a lot to lose," said another councillor, Rosalía López, on Instagram in a post sharing videos of the ceremony.

Mr Diack and Mr N'Diaye had been living in the city without papers at the time and doing irregular work, putting them at risk of arrest and deportation if they came into contact with authorities.

But both men on Monday said they had just done what they thought was the right thing in trying to stop the violence. In front of friends, civic servants and other guests on Monday, they were handed plaques by the mayor bestowing them with the status of "Adopted Sons of A Coruña".

"We are not heroes, we did what we had to do," said Mr N'Diaye, according to an AFP report.

Mr Diack said: "I was born in a family that doesn't have much... but they gave me many things more valuable than money. They gave me respect, education and above all, values."

The two were also crucial witnesses in the trial of Mr Luiz's killers last November, Spanish media reported.

A jury found four men guilty of the murder, with the court ordering sentences between 10 and 24 years. The court found the main accused - given a 24-year sentence - had shouted homophobic insults during the attack.

Tens of thousands of migrants reach Spain illegally every year through boat crossings across the Atlantic - with the most common arrivals from Mali, Senegal and Morocco.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx29pnzy1l7o
 

Police evict hundreds of migrants squatting in Paris theatre for months​

PARIS, March 18 (Reuters) - French police evicted more than 400 migrants on Tuesday who had been squatting inside the Gaite Lyrique theatre in central Paris for more than three months.
Officers began their operation shortly before 6 a.m. (0500 GMT) at the theatre, where hundreds of demonstrators had gathered to protest against the eviction.
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Since December 10, the migrants, including many unaccompanied minors, had occupied the concert and arts venue as part of their demands for shelter, leading the Gaite Lyrique management to suspend its operations on December 17.

A large banner on the Gaite Lyrique read: "400 lives at risk, 80 jobs under threat."
"Shame, shame, shame to authorities who are at war with isolated minors," demonstrators chanted in solidarity with the migrants, urging local authorities to provide sustainable housing to them rather than force them out.
Police briefly used tear gas at the start of their operation, but overall, the evacuation proceeded without any major incidents.
There were 46 arrests and nine people were slightly injured, Paris police chief Laurent Nunez told BFM TV.

"We had nowhere to go, we needed a shelter during the cold winter nights. So we had no choice but to occupy the Gaite Lyrique," said Dialo Aimmedou, who said he was 16 and arrived in France in October 2024.
Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo told France Inter radio on Tuesday that the evacuation had to be done, and that emergency housing had been offered to the migrants.
"At this stage, this was the thing to do because the situation was becoming complicated, tense and dangerous inside," she said.

Poland accused of brutality as Belarus border crackdown escalates​

BRUSSELS — Polish border forces regularly force migrants back into Belarus, with reports of people being beaten, stripped of their clothes and left stranded in forests without food, shelter or medical care, according to a new report from Oxfam and Polish nongovernmental organization Egala published Tuesday.

The report, titled “Brutal Barriers,” details widespread mistreatment at the Poland-Belarus border, including migrants being shot with rubber bullets, attacked by dogs and given water contaminated with pepper spray before being expelled.

Egala activists recounted the testimony of a 22-year-old Syrian national who had been stripped naked and left to freeze without shoes. Another group found a pregnant woman who was bleeding and in need of medical care but had been dragged back toward the border. The report said that some pregnant women suffered miscarriages after being denied assistance.
“Pushbacks at the Poland-Belarus border are generalized and systemic,” said Egala Advocacy Lead Aleksandra Gulińska. “We continuously come across people in the forest who have been forcibly returned to Belarus by Polish authorities.”

Despite such allegations, the European Commission in December allocated €52 million to bolster surveillance and infrastructure along Poland’s eastern border. In announcing the decision, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen noted that Poland and other border states are on the front lines of “hybrid threats” emanating from Belarus and Russia.

Belarus has played a central role in steering migrants toward the European Union, allegedly to destabilize the bloc, with state-controlled travel agencies offering them visas and transport. Once at the border, Belarusian security forces escort the migrants toward Polish territory while blocking their retreat.

For those pushed back to Belarus, the situation is even more dire. The report describes conditions as “hell,” citing cases of electrocution, waterboarding and body parts being cut off by Belarusian forces. Women and girls face extreme risk of sexual violence, with reports of rape before being forced toward Poland.

When Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk replaced the country’s right-wing populist government in 2023, rights groups hoped his more EU-aligned stance would soften his country’s approach at the border. Instead Tusk’s government has tightened policies, reintroduced exclusion zones and approved a law allowing the temporary suspension of the right to seek asylum. Migration remains a key issue ahead of the country’s May presidential election.

While Brussels has avoided confronting Tusk’s government over the pushbacks, it is threatening legal action over Poland’s refusal to take in asylum-seekers under the EU Migration Pact, which requires member countries either to accept a quota of asylum-seekers or to contribute to a financial solidarity mechanism. Last week the Commission warned Warsaw it could face penalties for refusing to comply.
Until now, Warsaw has refused to budge.

“Poland will not implement any migration pact or any provision of such projects that would lead to Poland’s forced acceptance of migrants. This is definitive,” Tusk said in February, insisting that Poland is already under heavy migration pressure from Belarus and is hosting large numbers of Ukrainian refugees.

Rights groups warn that Poland’s actions — and the reluctance of Brussels to curtail them — are setting a dangerous precedent.

“The EU must stop bankrolling this pushback policy and shut down any future plans that gamble with people’s lives,” said Sarah Redd, Oxfam’s Ukraine advocacy lead. “This is not about politics — it’s about what is right.”
 

JD Vance had a point on migration, Denmark’s prime minister warns EU leaders​

COPENHAGEN — There’s not much the socialist Danish prime minister agrees on with the Trump administration.

For one, U.S. President Donald Trump has threatened to annex Greenland, an autonomous Danish dependent territory. He’s also shown a particular desire to side with Russian President Vladimir Putin when it comes to the country’s invasion of Ukraine, a sentiment Mette Frederiksen has ardently opposed.

Surprisingly, though, the center-left Frederiksen told POLITICO in an interview that the Trump administration’s Vice President JD Vance was right when it comes to migration and limiting the mass arrival of foreigners.
“I consider this mass migration into Europe as a threat to the daily life in Europe,” said the leader of the wealthy Scandinavian welfare state, echoing what Vance said weeks earlier at the Munich Security Conference. Frederiksen used mass migration interchangeably with irregular migration during the interview.

“There is nothing more urgent than mass migration,” Vance told a partly shocked audience of Europeans Feb. 14, saying the threat was bigger than Russia. Frederiksen, who was in the audience when Vance gave his speech that day, said she “unfortunately” disagreed with him on Russia. She described Russia as the No. 1 threat facing Europe.

Still, he had a point on migration, she conceded.

The center-left politician stands out in a sea of conservatives in Europe as one of the only socialist leaders remaining in power across the bloc, in large part due to her severe policies on migration. Elected in 2019, she doubled down on a wholesale turnaround of Denmark’s immigration policy, which moved from openness to one of the strictest migration policies in Europe, if not the world.

But while Danish voters have embraced her tough stance on accepting foreign nationals, human rights organizations and refugee advocates have accused the government of “racism” and “discrimination.”

Conservative leaders across Europe, from Austria and Hungary to Germany and the Netherlands, have embraced similar viewpoints on migration with relative success while the popularity of Frederiksen’s socialist counterparts has waned. Outgoing German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez have pulled the other way when it comes to immigration, arguing against hardline policies at the EU level.
Scholz was voted out of office though he hardened his stance on asylum seekers weeks ahead of the Feb. 23 German election.

“The message that our populations in almost all European countries have tried to send to politicians through the years: Please get in control [of] our borders and be decisive on migration,” Frederiksen said.

‘Zero asylum’​

Frederiksen, like Trump, has found that her voter base embraces her stance on migration.

To limit migration, Denmark has deployed a potent cocktail of policies dubbed “zero” refugees including negative advertising in source countries urging migrants not to make the trip; confiscating valuables from migrants to offset the cost of their stay; threatening rapid deportations for settled Syrians during the reign of Bashar Assad; and the controversial “No Ghetto” laws aimed at reducing the proportion of foreign-born people in Danish neighborhoods. The country also passed a law in 2021 that could allow refugees to be moved to centers in partner countries outside the EU, such as Rwanda, a proposal that the European Commission later criticized.
Frederiksen isn’t responsible for all of these laws — some of which were introduced before she rose to power — but she has kept the direction of travel steady.

Dating back to his first term, Trump built his core support with “build the wall” chants at campaign rallies, promising to send back the hordes of migrants he claimed crossed over the border from Mexico daily. In recent days, Trump ignored a judge’s order while sending a plane of Venezuelan nationals to a third country, El Salvador.
In office and on the campaign trail, Trump said repeatedly that migrants have taken jobs away from Americans.

“No matter if you look at statistics on crimes or if you look at problems on the labor market, insecurity in local communities, it is the most vulnerable who experience the consequences” of uncontrolled migration, Frederiksen said.

Frederiksen attributes her party’s success with voters to her migration stance, which Vance also alluded to in Munch.

“No voter on this continent went to the ballot box to open the floodgates to millions of unvetted immigrants. But you know what they did vote for? In England, they voted for Brexit. And agree or disagree, they voted for it. And more and more, all over Europe, they’re voting for political leaders who promise to put an end to out-of-control migration,” Vance said.

Frederiksen has embraced staunchly socialist ideology when it comes to championing blue-collar workers, expanding access to abortion and protecting housing rights for tenants. Her immigration policies have kept the far right at bay and the percentage of immigrants in Denmark lower than other European countries such as Germany or Sweden.

The result has been a precipitous drop in asylum seekers between 2019 and 2024, when Denmark approved a total of 864 asylum claims.
“I totally believe in equal opportunities and a Scandinavian welfare model with a tax-paid education, social benefits and health care. But for me that’s only one traditional pillar of being a social democrat,” she argued.

“Being in control of migration is the second pillar.”

‘Do you feel safe where you live?’​

Copenhagen’s hardcore approach has stirred up plenty of controversy. Rivals have accused Frederiksen of co-opting far-right policies to win power and of riding roughshod over the dignity of migrants. Some of Denmark’s policies, like the law mandating the confiscation of valuables from arriving migrants, have drawn criticism from the United Nations. The “No Ghetto” law was found, just last month, of being “directly discriminatory on the basis of ethnic origin” by an adviser to the EU’s top court.

But exceptions remain. When Denmark took in Ukrainian refugees after Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022, the country’s parliament voted to amend the law to exempt those nationals from the restrictions on other migrants.
Critics have noted that similar policies would not work in larger, less homogenous EU countries such as Spain or France, which have much bigger immigrant populations going back generations linked to their colonial histories.

What’s more, Denmark has carve-outs from Europe’s justice and home affairs treaty, which grants Copenhagen wide latitude to enact policies that might be illegal elsewhere.
Indeed, while Denmark is something of an outlier in the EU, its officials have been driving a recent reappraisal of the bloc’s entire approach to migration.

After the EU adopted a new Migration and Asylum Pact in 2024, Denmark quietly led a group of 20 nations to propose further revisions to the way Europe handles asylum requests and deportations, according to two EU diplomats.

This effort fed into a new “Directive on returns,” published earlier this month by the European Commission, that gives states legal guidance on how they can speed up deportations to third countries or third states where migrants were previously employed, similar to the law Denmark passed in 2021 to allow the country to move refugees to Rwanda.

The bloc is also shelling out billions of euros to keep migrants from reaching its shores. Last year, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen inked a €7 billion deal with Egypt to boost development and deter irregular migration. The EU has also rushed to restore diplomatic ties with Syria, where it hopes to start returning more migrants after the fall of Assad despite recent outbreaks of sectarian violence.

“Of course we are all looking at what is going on in Syria. It’s not a political choice whether a country is safe or not. We have authorities looking into that,” she said.

For Frederiksen, such outlays don’t clash with Europe’s other big focus — defense. Instead, they’re all part of the same effort to make Europe more secure for its citizens.

“If I ask people about security and their security concerns, many of them will reply that Russia and defending Europe is top of mind right now. But security is also about what is going on in your local community,” Frederiksen said.

“Do you feel safe where you live? When you go and take your local train, or when your kids are going home from school, or whatever is going on in your daily life?”
 
Any government actually capable of enforcing a zero immigration policy by force (and don't you pretend that force is optional), has the manpower and enforcement capability, and a demonstrated disregard for human rights to enact any nasty policy they want.

So basically giving such an apparatus to a Trump or an orban would be suicidal.
 
Has anyone actually worked out what it would cost?

Ok, if there are 1 million unauthorized migrants in UK currently (Zero migrant ideology people would define it much higher), and ~50,000 enter per year (Likely an underestimate), you would need sufficient man power to achieve 100,000 detentions to get any real year on year improvement.

The UK police currently arrest somewhere around 600,000 people a year. So from that measurement, 100,000 looks doable. Current England + Wales prison places are approx 90,000 which makes it look MUCH less doable.

But if we look here (https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....tion-and-voluntary-departure-from-the-uk/#kp2) we see that most immigrants are not returned by Enforced Returns or Managed Returns. Those returns are only a few 10,000s and the majority are voluntary returns. There are also somewhat over 100,000 unauthorized migrants In The System being processed, and many of them have been there for a long time.

So current search efforts would need to quintuple and detention efforts would need to double (and a parallel prison system constructed). This is based on incredible optimism that the next 80,000 migrants would be just as easy to find and detain as the first 20,000, and that enforced return of 50,000 would make another 50,000 voluntarily leave.

If the UK prison budget is 7 billion and the police budget is ~18 billion, I think we're in the ballpark of $12-15 billion operating budget for a new Immigration Gestapo, an entity that will need to be constructed anew.

UK prison system employees: ~65000. UK Police Officers: ~150,000. So, at least 80,000 staff required.

Recent Home Office efforts cost about ~£400 million (https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Immigration-enforcement.pdf) to achieve ~13,000 removals. So, consider that starter money for the search effort budget.

So its an interesting question of why did the Conservatives (and currently Labour) talk, but not act? If it was easy, why don't they do it? Could just be that they're hypocrits but I'm wondering there is some kind of scaling issue of effort.
 
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Has anyone actually worked out what it would cost?

Ok, if there are 1 million unauthorized migrants in UK currently (Zero migrant ideology people would define it much higher), and ~50,000 enter per year (Likely an underestimate), you would need sufficient man power to achieve 100,000 detentions to get any real year on year improvement.

The UK police currently arrest somewhere around 600,000 people a year. So from that measurement, 100,000 looks doable. Current England + Wales prison places are approx 90,000 which makes it look MUCH less doable.

But if we look here (https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....tion-and-voluntary-departure-from-the-uk/#kp2) we see that most immigrants are not returned by Enforced Returns or Managed Returns. Those returns are only a few 10,000s and the majority are voluntary returns. There are also somewhat over 100,000 unauthorized migrants In The System being processed, and many of them have been there for a long time.

So current search efforts would need to quintuple and detention efforts would need to double (and a parallel prison system constructed). This is based on incredible optimism that the next 80,000 migrants would be just as easy to find and detain as the first 20,000, and that enforced return of 50,000 would make another 50,000 voluntarily leave.

If the UK prison budget is 7 billion and the police budget is ~18 billion, I think we're in the ballpark of $12-15 billion operating budget for a new Immigration Gestapo, an entity that will need to be constructed anew.

UK prison system employees: ~65000. UK Police Officers: ~150,000. So, at least 80,000 staff required.

Labour are the party of work. They will get it done
 
i'm just going to present some context here.

mette frederiksen is not a socialist.

the Social Democrats are basically the danish version of neoliberals (ie post-reagan new labor/democrat stuff) although the recent shift as to racism came much later when the rise of the populist (and bluntly insane) danish people's party funneled all of the social democrats' low income voters. social democrats responded by pushing for a lite version of Danish People's Party's immigration policy. this shift in policy of the social democrats (and the shift towards neoliberalism) have far removed them from being the workers' party they were back in the day. they used to be socialist-adjacent and stood for the building of the danish welfare state up until the 80s. they're not that now.

there's also the issue that even when leading left-wing coalitions, social democrats usually vote with the right. it has been like this for fifteen years i believe.

last election she held a bunch of cards getting a left wing coalition, but decided to finally formalize her party's alignment with the right instead, and formed a centre government with the former party leader of the liberal party. a bunch of her constituents were angry, but most invested social democrats are not that politically involved today.

i like what she's doing as to foreign policy, diplomacy and such. she has a staunch reputation in europe and seems like a proper eu-friendly moderate statesman with some reason and such. this is a good prime minister to have in our current situation. but domestically? she consistently cuts social subsidies and is quite so against immigration. she says she supports social subsidies and claims anti-immigration is a pillar, both for social democracy, but neither are true.

this should also not be surprising to noone btw. denmark's migration policy is infamous for a reason. her thoughts are pretty mainstream among the politically unenfranchised. leadership has switched back and forth from her party and the right, and both act like this.

on this quip:

“Do you feel safe where you live? When you go and take your local train, or when your kids are going home from school, or whatever is going on in your daily life?”

it's straight out of Danish People Party's playbook. do you feel safe. there was an essay recently by the former leader of the DPP who said she felt unsafe walking around in one of our city malls recently. this was because there were a lot of brown youngins hanging out in there - as you do as a youngin of any color. the melanin was literally scary. but it appeals to racists and scared grandmas. denmark is incredibly safe to the degree of farce; most foreigners being baffled at regular ways we just act not really thinking of much potential consequence as to even pickpocketing and such. because it just doesn't happen that much, doing tiny things to prevent pickpocketing just inconveniences you.

an important point as to all of this, feeling safe, is the sheer expense of danish immigration bureaucracy. a tendency that matches other parts of our social system. we're apparently willing to spend exuberant amounts of money to check and recheck and recheck whether people are legitimately allowed some subsidy or entry, and spend exuberant amounts of money to throw people out of it, with all the bookkeeping that all this entails, but not willing to just wave the costs of upkeeping the byzantine system and instead just invest the money into things happening smoothly, or, idk, spend the money elsewhere.
 
Alternatively, the US manages ~400,000 enforced returns with $30billion. (2024 budget of CBP/ICE 20+10bills)

Its very much apples to oranges as the UK is an island and US has large land borders, but $30billion / 4 = a shade under 8, so my estimate of £12-15 would be in the ballpark.
 
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"No voter on this continent went to the ballot box to open the floodgates to millions of unvetted immigrants."
He ain't wrong on this one...most of us definitely did not vote for this.
I don't remember reading a bullet point on any parties program saying that we will receive all these migrants while neglecting the natives that were already struggling with employment, housing. Or a bullet point saying migrant's kids will get ahead of your native children in pre schooling and school vacancies. (friends and family report this happening with their kids) Nor did I read about welcoming all the migrants while doing nothing about reinforcing already crumbling welfare infrastructure.
This nice and beautiful "Let them come to us we will receive the downtrodden of the world with open arms" has been, pretty much, a giant middle finger to the impoverished and struggling natives. We were/are being denied democracy!
 
"No voter on this continent went to the ballot box to open the floodgates to millions of unvetted immigrants."
He ain't wrong on this one...most of us definitely did not vote for this.
I don't remember reading a bullet point on any parties program saying that we will receive all these migrants while neglecting the natives that were already struggling with employment, housing. Or a bullet point saying migrant's kids will get ahead of your native children in pre schooling and school vacancies. (friends and family report this happening with their kids) Nor did I read about welcoming all the migrants while doing nothing about reinforcing already crumbling welfare infrastructure.
This nice and beautiful "Let them come to us we will receive the downtrodden of the world with open arms" has been, pretty much, a giant middle finger to the impoverished and struggling natives. We were/are being denied democracy!

Uh huh. And how do you or anyone else reckon the lack of anti-immigration political parties that build infrastructure or fund services?
 
Wow!
Patronising, bad faith comment and gotcha bait...all in one:thumbsup:
 
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