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how can a coastal start ever be good?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by smellymummy, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. smellymummy

    smellymummy Chieftain

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    hey im trying to figure this out here..

    take for example england, and start a game. you get placed on a coast. no matter how you look at it, all those ocean tiles your first city gets access too isn't going to amount to much compared to a full land start right?

    2 food (after compass) 1 gold vs whatever the grasslands/plains/hills (with or w/o forests, rivers) is never going to properly compete will it?

    is there some improvement, science, wonder or civic i'm overlooking here?
     
  2. enfo

    enfo Chieftain

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    Cities grow by 1 tile, and to the tile that is most beneficial. Coastal cities aren't that bad as long as you have 1 or 2 tiles adjacent to your new city that you can use until your city bounds grows from culture.

    Theoretically you can start a city right up against the edge of the map or against another civ's territory, and all the boundary growth will be concentrated in the other direction, so you aren't really losing much because you can't work all the tiles around you anyways with 1 population.
     
  3. Exterminas

    Exterminas Chieftain

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    I don't know about your games but my capitals borders always tend to grow faster than the city itself. Meaning that you won't have to work these ocean tiles for a long time, because there is plenty of land next to the ocean.
     
  4. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    - Seafood tiles
    - Seaports
    - Merchant Navy

    Any coastal site with at least 2 seafood tiles and decent land tiles too is very desirable.
     
  5. teks

    teks Chieftain

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    lighthouse gives +1 food, and a naval yard gives +1 production. It doesn't make you less right though...
    I think civ 4 had more fish/clams/crabs, which helped.
     
  6. The Great Apple

    The Great Apple Big Cheese

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    If you get 2/3 seafood they often make for the best cities. Plenty of food, plenty of gold, and with a seaport or a few hills, plenty of production.

    Of course, the downside is that you have less directions to expand in, which, depending on the map, can be a problem.
     
  7. smellymummy

    smellymummy Chieftain

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    havent seen a naval yard, which era and what tech gives you that?

    and still, everything being equal, the water tiles still give much less than land tiles. it's a shame there isn't more boost.

    if you can pick exactly where to set all your cities, then it's obviously not a sound choice to pick on the coast. the only benefit is the ability to create naval units? not worth the loss of potential hammers, food and gold i think
     
  8. DrunkenPirate

    DrunkenPirate Chieftain

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    I started a game as England this afternoon and London had 2 whales and 3 fish within reach, to say I was happy was an understatement. My 2 expansion cities (York and Nottingham) also on the coast had 2 to 3 seafood plots each.
     
  9. Ogrelord

    Ogrelord Chieftain

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    Did you had Legendary bias start or just standard bias?
     
  10. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Chieftain

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    I started as the Greeks on a peninsula with 2 whales and several land resources. Great spot, standard bias.
     
  11. Valdyr

    Valdyr Chieftain

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    That person meant a Seaport. It comes with..the Navigation tech, I think? Anyway, it gives you +2 Production per worked sea resource (Fish, Pearls, Whales) of the coastal city.
     
  12. DrunkenPirate

    DrunkenPirate Chieftain

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    Random actually.

    Although my sea tiles were bountiful, the land tiles were average.
     
  13. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Chieftain

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    Contrary to having no coastal cities, I think I would prefer to have all cities coastal if you intend to build a large empire. (That's only really sensible on an archipelago game, though). The clincher is harbors. Basically these substitute for roads/railroads and are much much cheaper in maintenance cost. And you need fewer workers on payroll - gives you even more gold.

    If you're doing things right, it doesn't matter that most sea tiles are a bit useless, because your boundaries should expand inland fast enough to keep you in land tiles. I'm not sure, by the way, that it's worth building lighthouse at all. More sensible to use the maintenance gold to get food from city states. Seaport, now - yeah, if it's a big production city, but I think maybe you need 2-3 sea resources to justify it. Not entirely sure of the math there.
     
  14. Tennyson

    Tennyson Chieftain

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    You've gotta have one powerhouse coastal city if you want a good navy. Might as well be the capital.
     
  15. Lyoncet

    Lyoncet Chieftain

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    The major problem is that contrary to what was posted above, culture border pops most certainly do not seek out whatever tile is "best." They always go for resources adjacent to the borders first, then they start to prioritize by which tiles have the least rough terrain. So your coastal cities will usually get a few nice pops early, then a bunch of useless 1/0/1 tiles that can be upgraded to a slightly less useless 2/0/1 with a lighthouse. It does seem like it will occasionally throw in a non-sea tile from time to time, but unless you've got a lot of money to buy tiles with or some insane culture going on (or lots of sea resources), it can be a real PITA to get those cities some decent tiles.
     
  16. Malkaviel

    Malkaviel Chieftain

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    Very rarely do you use more than 15 land tiles, anyway, unless you're ghandi or pimping settler difficulty.

    The building with production from sea resources is seaport.

    And yeh, I'm finding water tiles without resources to be kinda crappy in this version.
     
  17. Biz_

    Biz_ Chieftain

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    the coastal tiles are useless, but the fish is good. it's 3 food 1 gold without needing any improvements. add fishboat/lighthouse and it's 4f3g

    as for why coastal city is useful...
    boats are excellent at siegeing cities since you don't have to guard them and they aren't out of range half the time
    you can make fishboats for other cities that want to use water tiles but aren't on the coast
     
  18. Kronpas

    Kronpas Chieftain

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    Bland water titles are useless. The only real benefit of bulding a coastal city is ports.
     
  19. Stefanskantine

    Stefanskantine Angry Partisan

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    What about the advantage of connecting trade routes through harbors instead of road. Possibly cheaper maintenance costs.
     
  20. Kronpas

    Kronpas Chieftain

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    Its cheaper, esp. if you want to venture far from your initial location. First pair of port is 3+3= 6G maint. cost (or 4, dont really remember), the 3rd port is 1.5+3 and so on ...

    I dont play MP and AI doesnt know how to do naval warfare, so beside ports and occasional resources, coastal cities dont give you much benefit compared to previous Civ games.
     

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