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How can AI upgrade so easily while it has always no money?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Naokaukodem, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. Naokaukodem

    Naokaukodem Millenary King

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    I'm not answering it there, but truly asking... It seems so easy for the AI to get techs and units, even with half of its empire gone, and still then it can upgrade every single units i.e. every Riflemen into Infantry... this is really stupid to give such an advantage to AI (if it is), because war in Civ4 is not that much complicated so that the AI couldn't stand against a human, like only sit there and wait (defense better than attack).
     
  2. Tristan daCunha

    Tristan daCunha Pacifist Aggressive

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    I guess I haven't noticed what you mention. I seem to encounter lots of archaic units belonging to AI civs. I play on Noble and Prince levels - perhaps you are playing at a level which gives advantages to the AI?
     
  3. Powerslave

    Powerslave Chieftain

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    The AI gets very cheap upgrade costs, even at Noble and Prince. All of these variables are in the XML, and you can easily inspect them and/or change them, if you feel like it.

    The reason the AIs get such monstrous discounts on everything is because the original AIs were very poorly written. Try looking at the Better AI mod, if you'd like to see a more challenging version. You might find that playing on a lower level, where the game "cheats" less, is more challenging and fair.
     
  4. Naokaukodem

    Naokaukodem Millenary King

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    Even poorly written, there's nothing complicated in sitting there and wait... if only war weariness were lower, I would have kick him until he died. Another screwed game, I guess I will have to take care more of my production next time, and build some workshops. (I had poor production in this one)
     
  5. Yaype

    Yaype Me

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    If you think the AI has no money because it doesn't show up in the diplomacy screen, there in may be the answer to your question. The diplomacy screen only lists the amount of gold the AI is willing to trade, not the actual amount of gold the AI has. So when it upgrades, it may be doing so with a bunch of money you just don't know about.
     
  6. Naokaukodem

    Naokaukodem Millenary King

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    By diplomacy screen you mean the pop up screen when you encounter new AIs for example?
     
  7. gettingfat

    gettingfat Chieftain

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    This is the number 1 reason during an early war, when you start seeing Feudalism available in the diplomacy screen, and your opponent only has 4 archers left in his delicious capitals while you have only 7 swordmen, don't wait for your reinforcement, take the risk even you're not sure if this is a 100% win. The combination of the ridiculous tech trade among AIs and their insane low upgrade cost means in any second these 4 pathetic archers will all suddenly become longbows and laugh at your helpless swordmen.

    How I miss the Leonardo Workshop!
     
  8. Yaype

    Yaype Me

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    Yes, indeed.
     
  9. dcbandicoot

    dcbandicoot the true corporate champ

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    Also, the AI might sell off a tech to another Civ in a trade for gold, in order to upgrade their units..

    I don't know for sure that they do this, but that was always my impression.

    If I got to the point where i needed gold, I'd find the weakest civ that liked me (with any degree of gold), give them a weak non-military tech for several thousand gold.. works sometimes.
     
  10. Mr. Civtastic

    Mr. Civtastic Chieftain

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    Ah those were the days.
     
  11. Naokaukodem

    Naokaukodem Millenary King

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    Well that's too weird then! I dislike the insults AI does when we propose a tech and say "what would be that good for?" and propose only 20 bucks... now that I know this is "intentional", this is even worse and makes me want to kill it with a word. ;) AI should learn to keep good relations with human, in case it really wants it of course... I mean if it has not enough, just say "no thanks", but not proposing 20 gold...

    In another game I was kicking an AI, then I made peace and went for another AI because its cities were too culturally high (even if they were poor culturally, but I guess as it was on old land of its, it played in the balance) and preventing me to benefit from their ancient capitol... then the first AI decalred war soon after, it has KNIGHTS! when I kicked it couple turns before... I don't like this, the strenght ratio changes way too quickly in that game. Plus I had such a good civ. this drives me crazy! fortunatlly I could push back the attack with spears and pikes...
     
  12. Charles 22

    Charles 22 Chieftain

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    Are you offering that only as opinion? I ask that because I doubt it very highly. I'm sure there are ways to make sure that theory is incorrect. Say for example I deal with a civ that has 1500. I then have no techs they do not have, so what can I offer them that they will pay me 1500 for? I don't think they can give me that for resources at all. Perhaps they could for peace, though the recent AI change leaves that VERY doubtful, and if it adjusts that amount according to whether you're at peace with them or not, then obviously if you're not at war with them, that is out the window. Aside from techs and peace offers, what else could they give you this amount for? Understand, I can't say with certainty I've ever seen this combination of factors, but I'm thinking they didn't make the Ai that complicated to adjust that much concerning it's revealed cash.

    Hold on a minute. Think about this general situation. Quite commonly, later in the game, where the techs are more expensive, I notice that the civs at the noble level generally don't have over 2000 gold showing. Notice the behavorial change. In the earlier game I had plenty of civs that would have amounts exceeding the worth of some of the techs I had that they didn't. If it is true the the gold I see is only what they're willing to dupe out, then why is it they NEVER have enough gold to buy off my techs later in this same situation? That's one of the tings that rubs me about the Blake AI, how they no longer have close to enough money for the mid-techs onwards.
     
  13. Powerslave

    Powerslave Chieftain

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    First of all, you might try approaching others with a bit more respect. Second, no, he's right. Third, yes, it is possible to definitively prove, because you can simply look in the Civ IV SDK.
     
  14. Yaype

    Yaype Me

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    Thanks for taking care of that. :thumbsup:
     
  15. Charles 22

    Charles 22 Chieftain

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    It is also possible this had been changed since the Blake AI, however if SDK means the excuse for a manual we have, then it is still possible that has been changed.
     
  16. Psyringe

    Psyringe Scout

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    The SDK is the software development kit that can be used to mod (or analyze) the game. It doesn't have anything to do with any manual.
     
  17. NKVD

    NKVD Cossack

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    you guys are mixing it up maybe? some are talking about the Gold Per Turn and others about total gold like charles22.

    Or i'm terribly wrong. and both amount are only the amount the AI is willing to trade. Then what does it gives to have the reded out amounts?
     
  18. Charles 22

    Charles 22 Chieftain

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    I started off Yaype's comment regarding upgrading. If they were talking about gold-per-turn then obviously they took the wrong track, because upgrading comes only from the total gold, which you so correctly pointed out that I was referring to.

    BTW, I am curious how one attains an SDK, as my computer doesn't seem to have it. I doubt I want it for any other reason than to verify with all certainty what they have said, but even so that doesn't mean 2.08 hasn't changed that (yet unlikely). I just know ti seems really silly for a civ to not have a tch that I have and then it to foolishly leave only 1000 gold in it's available gold if it has the slightest notions of getting the later expensive techs. It looks to me as though, if these guys are on the level, that they programmed the civs to never display a higher amount of gold later in the game, thusly pretty much trashing the idea of trading techs for money late.
     
  19. Psyringe

    Psyringe Scout

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    The SDK is an additional download for Civ4, you can get it from the CFC official downloads section. You need a compatible C++ programming environment and some programming knowledge and skill to use it though.
     
  20. NKVD

    NKVD Cossack

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    I mean if I'm totally beating down a country the amount is really all is money he have not what he wants to "trade"...if he doesnt want to give money it will be written 1200 in red. if he wants to give 500 for peace its always written 1200 but if you ask 1200 he'll say you're out of your mine until you ask for that 500...then he'll accept.

    Its different with GPT though since even when i'm running in deficit and go to trade screen no amount are written there...
     

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