How can I change?

[Mano3]

I'm slowly going insane over this game, as I can't win it at Noble or higher. Back in my CIV I, II & III days, I ruled the world at the higher levels, but in CIV IV, I'm Dan Quayle...

That said, after reading post after post after post, I think my problem lies in the fact that I'm a CIV III Builder that can't change. So, I'm reaching out for your help to transform me from a Builder to a Warmonger. I need to break this habit.

Is there a 'how-to' Warmonger guide? What are the hard, fast rules to Warmongering? Is there a CIV Builder's Anonymous I could join? Please help me...

 

[shadow69034]

I think my biggest help because im with you is read the challenges in here step by step. They explain why they do what they are doing and really help you to figure out the game IMO. I used to play on chieftan and then after reading those i jumped up to noble (which im still trying to get the grasp on) and I also added the better Ai, because i was a peacfull player never really building an army until late in the game but the better AI you have to build and also the challenges help you to figure out how to go to make friends and chose your enemys wisley

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

you can still be a builder and get (almost) every wonder at noble. don't overexpand. make sure you have enough workers to keep up with your city growth. and don't start building wonders in al cities at the same time. learnt that the hard way. Best would be to go only for the wonders wich give the best benefits. And for warmongering you basicaly need only barracks and granary for your first war. afterwards courthouses, (markets) library when you have time and your ready for your next war.

 

[svv]

Bronze Working
Slavery
Chop
Whip
Stone
Masonry
Axes
Kill
Chop
Pyramids
Whip
Great Engineer builds the Great Library
Religion
Shrine
Liberalism
Music
Chemistry
Grenediers
Kill
Steel
Cannon
Kill

 

[cabert]

here is a very good article about warmongering for builders

 

[TyranusBonehead]

I've learned to play on noble mainly by studying and figuring out what I'm doing that isn't working for me. I still have a long way to go and it's taken a long time for me to get to this point, but I am now comfortable at the noble level. Be willing to completely overhaul how you play and read up on the articles at the war academy section of this web site.

 

[KMadCandy]

quick tip from a builder-at-heart herself (althought not consistently winning at noble yet, depending on goal of the game):

i played a game recently restricting myself to no wonders, not even letting myself try to build them (well couldn't resist great library). it was hard to resist the urge.

it was fun and felt like such an accomplishment! the "hey julius, thanks for investing the hammers in the great wall for me suckah, now it's mine all mine!" was awesome!!

it let me focus on warmongering more in the first place, having the hammers/time to invest in building up troops. it taught me about how much i rely on wonders in ways i have to re-learn without them (OMG the pain, the agony, of not having the pyramids and having to wait soooooo long for the civics).

definitely read the articles (and maybe some ALCs/EMCs/SGs), those guys know far more than me. just a thought from someone in your spot.

 

[ChicagoCubs]

I am a builder but late game warmonger. Here are my tips:

1. Read all of the articles that you can find. You'll see a couple things are are repeated:
--certain wonders are used even in the warmonger games.
--certain technology paths are followed to allow for effective trading.

2. Play on smaller maps. Large maps just scream expansion and building. The smaller maps lead to quicker wars.

3. Overwhelming odds are sometimes a waste. You could have taken a city with 4 axemen, but you waited until you have 8 axeman, 3 archers and 6 horse archers.

4. Razing is OK.

 

[Quagga]

1. Admit that you are powerless over your tendency to build.
2. Come to believe that a Higher Power (Warmongering) can restore your sanity.
...
12. Carry this message to other builders.

 

[Harbourboy]

I think the number one difference between Civ IV and other Civs is that bigger is no longer always better. In previous games, population was everything, but now (more realistically) population is only good if it is productive. Having people and cities for the sake of having people and cities is now a bad thing, because of the crippling overheads.

 

[Galileo44]

I definately agree with KMadCandy about trying a game with no wonders. See how much military you crank out instead. Or try a fast war game on a small (tiny or duel) map with only graneries, barracks, and courthouse. Don't build any other buildings. You can win pretty easily with that many troops.

 

[merdyl]

you don't always have to win you know.....

if you want to be a builder, BE a builder..... just because you get run over now and then doesn't mean you're a loser, at least you get the satisfaction of creating the great wall...painting the sistine chapel... programming the internet...

as much as people think dan quayle is a moron, what does it tell about them that he rose to the #2 position in the planet??

i get run over all the time....just reset the game and build things better

 

[Mano3]

Great tips from great people - thanks!

I must say that I am a bit sad that CIV IV has shifted towards warmongering. I really miss rapid expansion, but I do understand that in the 'real world', an empire that expandes too quickly is harder to maintain, secure and govern.

 

[cabert]

I don't miss rapid expansion, it was too much of a recipe IMHO.
There is a little more strategy in cIV (although some think that it's all about a different recipe, but then I don't know it yet)

 

[carl corey]

If you can block of a lot of territory for yourself you can easily go without wars. In one Monarch game (Warlords, patch 2.08) I was on a 5 civ continent and didn't fight any wars. I just got lucky to start far away from the others, and founded a couple of cities toward them to block their expansion. Once that was done, I backfilled to a total of 9 cities (not all of them extremely useful though) and aimed for cultural victory. My armies were outdated by the end of the game, but since I never adopted a religion I was nobody's enemy, so I was never in any real danger.

But if you have reason to believe you'll be under attack you really need to keep your power rating high. Dedicate a couple of cities to units only. Don't build cottages in them, just farms and mines and later watermills and workshops. Granary, forge, barracks is probably all they need. Keep building units out of them no matter what and you should be ok. Also, don't make the cities near a potential enemy commerce cities with lots of cottages. Farms and mines are easily rebuilt, matured cottages, not so.

In my opinion the worst thing you can do is aim for lots of wonders without either expanding, blocking land for later expansion or going to war to cripple your enemies and "expand" through them. You'll just end up with a few cities with lots of nice wonders for the AI to conquer.

Of course, if you start with Monty or Alex near you you don't really have an option. Either take them out or be taken out by them - easy to see the right choice.

 

[KMadCandy]

I definately agree with KMadCandy about trying a game with no wonders.

i just love quoting people agreeing with me!

one more idea mano3, that helped me tho it seems a bit counterintuitive. if you're going to try a radically different approach than usual (like my no wonders approach), sometimes it helps to go down in difficulty a level to make the trial adjustment. note that in this particular case it would make grabbing wonders easier and you MUST resist!

but if i'm gonna do a 100% new type of game for myself i often go a step lower for the first attempt. being able to focus on the tactics with a *little* break from the AI advantages helps me refine said tactics to use on the real games later.

 

[jray]

i played a game recently restricting myself to no wonders, not even letting myself try to build them

I agree with KMadCandy (and you can quote that!)

I had the exact same problem until I forced myself to give up wonders and religions for a few games. At least give them up until you have the highest Power rating, then maybe let yourself go for 1 or 2. You can then, as KMadCandy implied, go out and capture those same wonders for yourself. It's not quite as much fun to miss out on the wonder movies and the big culture points, but you'll get used to it after a while. Plus, you can just download a Bink player and launch the movies yourself after you capture the wonders . Sounds cheesy, but I've done it and I'm proud of it!

It also helps to choose your dedicated military-production cities and re-name them "E War Machine" and "W War Machine" or whatnot. Give one of them Heroic Epic + West Point and the other IronWorks + Red Cross (or something like that). Then whenever you need to choose a new build for a "*War Machine" city, you will avoid anything but Barracks, Granary, Forge, Factory, and military units.

Once you do this for a game or two, you'll hopefully realize the value of a strong military and how you really can do well without building wonders yourself. Then you can go back to trying for the wonders you want the most. You don't have to "become" a warmonger... but it does help to learn the ropes of a strong military.

 

[Dnomal]

From my experience the best way to beat a wonder addiction is to ask the question, is this wonder worththe investment?

For example if you are the first to Literature, then conside the great library, if you have a great engineer in the early fame consider the Pyramids. Never build wonders just to build them, Stonehenge, sounds cool i think i'll have it! I did the same, and it cost me many games, wasting pr. on wonders i never used to the fulll, you don't need the Chicken Itza if you're advancing on all fronts, and even if on the defensive the production is often better spent on defensive units.

A lot of people fight early wars, personally i prefer to wait a it, by the time of swordsman and maceman the AI will have roads to speed troops to there only cities, and towns to finance the advance.

Also wait for upgrades, the times i invade are usually just after i have a tech leg up, for example getting macema against axeman/swordsman, grens vs Longbows/maceman or infantry vs rifeleman etc.

Also i lack any real ability at warfare, Sun Tzu's expression works well for me:

"victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

I have a tenncy to build up large armies and then smach across the border with a massive show of strength, aimed towards border cities, when the border cities have fallen i move to the core, then the further cities, this is my strategy in many games, i prefer it to border skirmishes, it works for me. But it dosen't always work, nd you might find a strategy that fits you like a glove, anyone who says building ANY wonders is (In my opinon) wrong, its massive building that leads to trouble.

Finially, to keep up in the military race that goes on throughout the game i recommend having one of your cities building a military unit, (not one city always building military, but rather rotating the city building a military.

Hope that helped.

 

[KMadCandy]

I agree with KMadCandy (and you can quote that!)

yeehaw!

You can then, as KMadCandy implied, go out and capture those same wonders for yourself. It's not quite as much fun to miss out on the wonder movies and the big culture points, but you'll get used to it after a while.

oh but it is! i was total builder fanatic so the times i captured wonders were few. that first game tho, it was a big rush. "neener neener, you went to the effort and i get the benefit!" it's worth missing out on culture points for me. i get a kick out of rubbing it in to the AI, how geeky am i? great library tho, can't trust the AI to put it somewhere worthwhile, that one i can't resist a try for, whatever level.

It also helps to choose your dedicated military-production cities and re-name them "E War Machine" and "W War Machine" or whatnot. Give one of them Heroic Epic + West Point and the other IronWorks + Red Cross (or something like that). Then whenever you need to choose a new build for a "*War Machine" city, you will avoid anything but Barracks, Granary, Forge, Factory, and military units.

i rename my cities all the time. in particular, "West Point" and "Red Cross" just so i remember where i'm going to put them, and what to make where when they're all set (as in, a waste to make tanks in Red Cross). the major shrine city in my current game was St. Petersburg, now it's St. Moneysburg. i put a + in front of the names of cities with airports to remember which they are. i hate that there's no indicator where the airports are like there were in previous versions.

 

[jray]

i rename my cities all the time. in particular, "West Point" and "Red Cross" just so i remember where i'm going to put them, and what to make where when they're all set (as in, a waste to make tanks in Red Cross). the major shrine city in my current game was St. Petersburg, now it's St. Moneysburg. i put a + in front of the names of cities with airports to remember which they are. i hate that there's no indicator where the airports are like there were in previous versions.

Cool idea, I didn't think about adding airport notation and stuff.

I usually use signs for reminding myself where to put national wonders, and also how to improve each tile. As soon as I found a new city, I'll fill the fat cross with little "f", "c", "m", and "w" signs to remind myself where to put farms, cottages, mines, and windmills, all figured out by tallying up food availability and such. I use capital letters for more urgent tiles. Then it's like I have "semi-automated workers" after that . It's nice to only have to do that counting once for each city. Okay, well twice, again after Biology.