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How can I find out the map seed?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by ville-v, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. ville-v

    ville-v Chieftain

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    Hello, I want to find out the map seed of a savegame. Which utility does this?

    I can't find Seed beast download anywhere. In that thread they claimed its features have been inserted to Civassist II, but I can't find map seed in there.

    I attached the savegame, in case you already have some utility installed.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    It's 4334663 .

    In CivAssist II, go to the world tab, right-click in the map area and choose properties:



    The world seed is the first value listed:

     
  3. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    Oh, yeah, you can get it without helper programs, too. Civ keeps the last loaded worldseed, so load the game you want the seed from, quit to main menu (control-shift-Q), choose "Play Last World"



    And there's the seed pre-entered for you in the upper-right



    Or, if you're comfortable finding and opening your .ini file, the seed for the most-recently-loaded game is in there:



    (The seed in this post isn't your world...yours is in the previous post.)
     
  4. ville-v

    ville-v Chieftain

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    Cool! I was thinking it only shows data from the newest "new game".
     
  5. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    I believe you are correct. So that method would only work if you haven't started any new games since the one for which you want the seed.

    Looks like a nice start.
     
  6. hyko

    hyko Chieftain

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    Hi there, first time posting, sorry (hope I dont break DaRules)...

    Anyway, if a saved game from a mod such as rar is loaded into CivAssistII there ain't the possibility to choose the properties option (it's gray) in the world map tab.

    Therefore, one cant get the seed from such a world map, can he? Is this default, I mean, by default, one cannot get a seed from a mod map, or is there any way to go around that problem?

    thks

    View attachment rar004Hiawatha of the Iroquois, Jan., 750 AD.SAV
     
  7. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    If it is a custom-made map, you will not get a world seed. World Seed is the number used to start the Random Number Generator to create a world in the Editor. Also, if you are on a different computer than the world seed was created on, you may not get exactly the same map. I have run some tests using the Editor under Parallels on a Mac with Windows XP, a Windows box running XP, and a Windows box running Windows 7. The same map seed created 3 different maps, quite similar but not identical.
     
  8. tjs282

    tjs282 Socially distancing since 1975

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    There is no problem: the utility of knowing the seed is to allow you to generate the same 'random' map (i.e. with the same randomly-generated geography) over and over again. For a hand-built map, you don't need a seed, you just need the appropriate .bic/ .bix/ .biq file (Vanilla/ PtW/ Conquests). This file can contain either:
    • Ruleset only
      • The standard 'epic game' .bic/ .bix/ .biq is a ruleset only. So, similar to the epic game, any ruleset-only mod can be played on a randomly-generated map, for which (I'm pretty sure) you can obtain a map-seed afterwards, if you wanted to replay the same map using a different Civ.
        Spoiler :
        CAVEAT: However, even if you were to choose an identical list of Civs (you+opponents), you would not necessarily get 100% identical assignment of starting positions as in your previous game. By choosing a different Civ for yourself, at least one of the other Civs would have to be assigned to a different civ-slot (turn-order) in the .ini file, and as a result might well be given a different starting position (see Spoiler below). The worst possible outcome might be that, regardless of which Civ you chose, you (always) got the same start-position as in your previous game (whcih would really suck if you were landlocked in the first game, and chose a SEA-civ for the replay!).
    • Map only
    • Map+Ruleset
      • Map-only, and Map+ruleset ('full-conversion') mods, by definition, will use the same map every time
      • Map-only mods will use the epic-game rules, units and Civs by default (e.g. Earth-maps -- with or without assigned starting positions for each 'out-of-the-box' AICiv, but no other rule changes -- would be of this type)
    That's interesting, because according to various posts I've read on here -- not least the info from MikeB regarding the .ini file settings -- that shouldn't happen, provided that all the world-settings are also identical. Could you give a little bit more detail as to how they differed?

    I ask because I recently ran the same seed twice (admittedly on the same computer), and it appeared to work as advertised.
    Spoiler :
    As an experiment, I had tried to run the PtW .bix via the Conquests executable (my GamersGate 'Civ3inComplete' installation does not include a PtW executable).

    I chose a Standard 70% Continents, other map-settings Random, India as my Civ, all-Random opponents, and Monarch-level. I got a really interesting-looking map: my continent was doughnut-shaped, with multiple nice choke-/canal-points around a large inland sea. However, some way into the game, I found that my Workers couldn't clear the Marsh-terrain (because Marshes weren't included as a terrain-type in the PtW .bix), which blocked settlement/ development of several potentially food-rich core city-sites. I really wanted to (re)play that map, so I resaved the .bix as a .biq, tweaked it to include the 'Clear Wetland' Worker-job for Marshes, and restarted.

    I had met the Babs, Germans and Chinese (on my Continent) before I abandoned the first attempt; the 3000 BC Historian pop-up told me that the other 4 opponents were the Spanish, Celts, Americans, and Mongols. For the second attempt, I used CAII to extract the seed and world-conditions (including Barbs) generated by the pRNG for the first run, and manually re-entered all the information in the setup screens. (I did not use 'Play Last World', because I was uncertain whether the game would re-use the previously-generated settings, or would select 'Random' map-settings and opponents again -- although according to Quintillus' answer above, looks like I needn't have worried.)

    (As far as I can tell) I got an identical map the second time, with at least 4/8 sets of starting co-ordinates also identical (those on my Continent). The only difference between the 2 maps (that I noticed) was in the assignment of the known start-positions to the AICivs on the second run: although I was still sharing my Continent with the same AICivs, and my (and Hammy's) start-point hadn't changed, Mao now started in the SW quadrant, Otto in the NW. I assume this was because I'd inadvertently assigned them (and possibly also the AICivs on the other Continent) to different slots than the pRNG had used for the first run.
     
  9. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    If you use the same computer, the map seed will give you the same results. I will have to set up the tests and run them again so that you can see the difference. It might take a couple of days to do so.
     
  10. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    I'd also be interested in learning a bit more about this setup and what the differences were. I'd previously thought that the same seed would always generate the same map, potentially with different starting locations, although like tjs282, I haven't tried doing so with the same seed on multiple computers.

    As for hyko's question, I am able to confirm that I can't get the Properties in CAII for that file either. Is it a random map or a predetermined one? It looks random, but I'm not sure.
     
  11. tjs282

    tjs282 Socially distancing since 1975

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    FTR, I just tried to get the seed from that posted .sav as well, but CAII wouldn't give it, as hyko said.

    Is it possible that that map was originally based on a randomly generated terrain, but the 4000 BC .sav was then fiddled with in the Editor, e.g. to place/move Resources, adjust starting positions, or neaten up the geography? Would doing some/all of that be enough to negate the seed-record?

    Come to that, would simply opening the map in the Editor (e.g. to get a sneak peek at your continent) be enough to wipe the seed?
     
  12. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    I think that as soon as you open the map in the Editor, the seed is going to change on you, based on my work with the Editor.
     
  13. hyko

    hyko Chieftain

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    hi
    So, it was a, yes, a randomly created map.

    TJS282, I guess I might have tried decompressing the sav, when I was trying different methods. That was done with another utility from the site (biqdecompressor or crpsuite). But that creates a different file, so how would it affect it? I have never opened the editor. I dont even know where it is.
    Anyway, I've tried on a different sav also from RAR now, and it's the same, it's grayed out. Any help? Is there an "analogical" way of getting it? Might it have anything to do with putting rar006 on the beginning of the filename?

    One more thing. I'm not sure I use the epic one (rar). It's regular 1.02 RAR extended... Would that be a factor?

    Thks to all

    View attachment rar006Hiawatha of the Iroquois, Jan., 760 BC.SAV
     

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