I am playing on the new G&K, but no matter what I do i am being called a War Monger. I read somewhere that you can attack nations just as long as you do not wipe them off. Does this mean you can annex their capital and not be called a war monger or is any type of warfare going to lead to being called a war monger?
How can i stop being called a war monger
- Thread starter falcon7xx
- Start date
So do not declare war on anyone. What happens if they declare war on you or an ally of yours asks you to declare war on someone...
Do not declare war on people just because your "allies" ask you too. lol some turns later they might not want declaration of friendship anymore and will hate you because you are a warmonger(which is because you did what they asked you to do. I know. WTF). Yea they still need to fix that little part for diplomacy.
If people declare war on you then you have no choice but to fight them and AI's wont settle peace unless you wipe their army or taking 1 to 2 of their cities. I think you can safely take their cities if they declare on you first. Some posters have said they still get called "warmonger" for this but I didn't see that happen in my games.
If people declare war on you then you have no choice but to fight them and AI's wont settle peace unless you wipe their army or taking 1 to 2 of their cities. I think you can safely take their cities if they declare on you first. Some posters have said they still get called "warmonger" for this but I didn't see that happen in my games.
knighterrant81
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2011
- Messages
- 272
I don't know about G+K (I haven't downloaded it yet) but the AI pays attention to *who* declared war on *whom*.
If you declare war on the AI, you get negative diplomatic modifiers depending on the personality of AI leaders (Ghandi dislikes warmongering more than, say, Alex).
If the AI declares war on YOU (as much as that usually sucks) they also just declared open season on themselves diplomatically, and you can basically do whatever you want to them - short of completely wipe them out - with no diplomatic penalties.
If you do completely wipe them out, you suffer diplomatic consequences, even if they DoW'd you in the first place. Just leave one wimpy city off in a corner.
Also, the AI seems to notice when you are getting to be the big kid on the block and this is the modifier they use if you achieved that through war (you'll get the "too many cities" modifier if you did it through rexing), although that seems to only extend to civs whom you've already met - new civs seem to start with a blank slate.
City states don't seem to mind if you "take care of someone" for a rival CS once or twice, but if you start attacking city states without provocation they'll gang up on you too.
So, the big no-no's:
Declaring war on someone, formally or informally (going into their territory without an open borders agreement, stuff like that)
Completely wiping out a Civ (taking their last city)
Obvious things, like breaking a peace treaty before it expires (the cease-fire thingy after a war, not the general peacetime state of contact that is the norm)
I don't know because I usually go for science or domination (and domination games are over before you get nukes) but most Civ games give huge diplomatic penalties for ever using a nuclear weapon.
Sneaky Loopholes:
If the AI DoW's you, you can take all of his cities except the last one
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe you can even repeatedly refuse to sign peace treaties the AI offers you when you are kicking their a _ _ without penalty.
Sometimes, for whatever reason (usually because you are neighbors and THEY are looking for an excuse to attack you) the AI will just suddenly look for reasons to be upset at you and if you've taken a few cities by force in your game this modifier might show up.
Basically, wait until the AI decides to be Nazi Gemany and seize your Sudetenland. You get to be Winston Churchill and tell the AI "OH NO YOU DIDN'T!"
If you declare war on the AI, you get negative diplomatic modifiers depending on the personality of AI leaders (Ghandi dislikes warmongering more than, say, Alex).
If the AI declares war on YOU (as much as that usually sucks) they also just declared open season on themselves diplomatically, and you can basically do whatever you want to them - short of completely wipe them out - with no diplomatic penalties.
If you do completely wipe them out, you suffer diplomatic consequences, even if they DoW'd you in the first place. Just leave one wimpy city off in a corner.
Also, the AI seems to notice when you are getting to be the big kid on the block and this is the modifier they use if you achieved that through war (you'll get the "too many cities" modifier if you did it through rexing), although that seems to only extend to civs whom you've already met - new civs seem to start with a blank slate.
City states don't seem to mind if you "take care of someone" for a rival CS once or twice, but if you start attacking city states without provocation they'll gang up on you too.
So, the big no-no's:
Declaring war on someone, formally or informally (going into their territory without an open borders agreement, stuff like that)
Completely wiping out a Civ (taking their last city)
Obvious things, like breaking a peace treaty before it expires (the cease-fire thingy after a war, not the general peacetime state of contact that is the norm)
I don't know because I usually go for science or domination (and domination games are over before you get nukes) but most Civ games give huge diplomatic penalties for ever using a nuclear weapon.
Sneaky Loopholes:
If the AI DoW's you, you can take all of his cities except the last one
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe you can even repeatedly refuse to sign peace treaties the AI offers you when you are kicking their a _ _ without penalty.
Sometimes, for whatever reason (usually because you are neighbors and THEY are looking for an excuse to attack you) the AI will just suddenly look for reasons to be upset at you and if you've taken a few cities by force in your game this modifier might show up.
Basically, wait until the AI decides to be Nazi Gemany and seize your Sudetenland. You get to be Winston Churchill and tell the AI "OH NO YOU DIDN'T!"
lol I read the thread title again and realized if you kill everyone then no one call you warmonger.
lol this is very true, but I have won domination so many times its not fun.
Similar to the previous posts - wait for them to declare war, take all but one city, refuse peace until you do. Don't destroy city states either, I think this counts the same as destroying any other civilizations.
I don't know for sure but based on my experience you are okay to provoke if you don't declare war. For example demand things, denounce, trade with their enemies, etc, until they finally declare war on you. Stealling the aliances of their city states is a good way too if you want your neigherbor to declare war on you.
I don't know for sure but based on my experience you are okay to provoke if you don't declare war. For example demand things, denounce, trade with their enemies, etc, until they finally declare war on you. Stealling the aliances of their city states is a good way too if you want your neigherbor to declare war on you.
IgnatiusTBarfat
Puppet Master
There are some things you can do to encourage them to declare war, e.g. settling close, spreading religion, culture bombing, etc. And don't raze cities.
Dan4GS
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2011
- Messages
- 66
Don't see this in any of the above posts, but keep in mind you do get one "free" DOW that you can declare where no one will call you a warmonger. Use it wisely...
Once you DOW a second time, though, people start to call you a warmonger. Generally, I find you can get "two free" wars, the first being whoever DOW you early in game (I play on Immortal, so I always get an early rush from an aggressive civ), and the 2'nd being your free one. In my current game Germany DOW me and I took their capital leaving one other city than I DOW Persia and left them one city. After that, I've got my territory carved out so I start peaceful building.
Once you DOW a second time, though, people start to call you a warmonger. Generally, I find you can get "two free" wars, the first being whoever DOW you early in game (I play on Immortal, so I always get an early rush from an aggressive civ), and the 2'nd being your free one. In my current game Germany DOW me and I took their capital leaving one other city than I DOW Persia and left them one city. After that, I've got my territory carved out so I start peaceful building.
I don't declare war, and I often get labeled a warmonger.
Could there be something about not agreeing to peace that gives you the warmonger label? I ask, because I think I'm following all the suggestions (once someone declares war on me, I take all their cities but the last one, but I always ignore their pleas for peace).
Could there be something about not agreeing to peace that gives you the warmonger label? I ask, because I think I'm following all the suggestions (once someone declares war on me, I take all their cities but the last one, but I always ignore their pleas for peace).
IgnatiusTBarfat
Puppet Master
About the free DoW... I'm pretty sure this what Dan4GS meant by putting it in quotes, but it isn't free exactly. You take a diplo-hit, but it isn't significant enough that by itself to will hose your relations. Also, remember that if you steal and early worker from a CS, it will count as your 'free' DoW.
lonkelley makes an interesting point. I've been tagged as a war monger in games were I don't start a single war. But usually, in those games, I do stuff like raze cities, pillage entire country sides, deny peace treaties until the AI pays me all their money, beat up old ladies, and just generally act like a jerk.
lonkelley makes an interesting point. I've been tagged as a war monger in games were I don't start a single war. But usually, in those games, I do stuff like raze cities, pillage entire country sides, deny peace treaties until the AI pays me all their money, beat up old ladies, and just generally act like a jerk.
As others have pointed out:
There is a diplomatic penalty with every DoW. Most of the AI's will look the other way with the first DoW, though not all. When you start doing multiple DoW's, people become increasingly hostile towards you.
There is a very severe diplomatic penalty for wiping out any Civ (including City States).
If you want to war while still maintaining good relations, the best thing to do is to encourage the other AI's to DoW you and to then beat them up but leave them one city. If you really want to wipe them out and are particularly good, you can manipulate things so that another major Civ or a City State takes their final city so you don't get the genocide penalty. (Bribe an AI or ally a City State so they are at war as well. When they have units nearby, bombard the final city to 0 HP and hope the AI will take it).
Generally, the two best ways I have found to get AI's to war with you:
1. Share borders with them (often by settling aggressively near them)
2. Maintaining a small army. (many posts have mentioned the AI's bizarre way of calculating troop strength). Generally, you are better off with fewer but highly experienced (or advanced) troops. If you wisely use troop placement and the terrain, you can easily fend off a much larger AI with just a couple of troops. (Walls in Vanilla or Faith Healers or Defenders of the Faith in G&K can also go A LONG way).
Reminds me a lot of Civ IV (where you got a "you declared war on our friend" penalty so you really wanted to encourage the AI to DoW you).
Also, some warmongers fight, sign a peace treaty, fight again, sign peace, repeat ad nauseum etc.
Ideally if you want to maintain the best relations with other civs, once the other civ wars on you, do *not* sign peace with them (ever or until they're down to one city). Maintain a perpetual war, even if years go by without you actually fighting each other. (There might be a few cases, like with Monty, where you can sign peace knowing that he will very likely DoW you again in the near future).
There is a diplomatic penalty with every DoW. Most of the AI's will look the other way with the first DoW, though not all. When you start doing multiple DoW's, people become increasingly hostile towards you.
There is a very severe diplomatic penalty for wiping out any Civ (including City States).
If you want to war while still maintaining good relations, the best thing to do is to encourage the other AI's to DoW you and to then beat them up but leave them one city. If you really want to wipe them out and are particularly good, you can manipulate things so that another major Civ or a City State takes their final city so you don't get the genocide penalty. (Bribe an AI or ally a City State so they are at war as well. When they have units nearby, bombard the final city to 0 HP and hope the AI will take it).
Generally, the two best ways I have found to get AI's to war with you:
1. Share borders with them (often by settling aggressively near them)
2. Maintaining a small army. (many posts have mentioned the AI's bizarre way of calculating troop strength). Generally, you are better off with fewer but highly experienced (or advanced) troops. If you wisely use troop placement and the terrain, you can easily fend off a much larger AI with just a couple of troops. (Walls in Vanilla or Faith Healers or Defenders of the Faith in G&K can also go A LONG way).
Reminds me a lot of Civ IV (where you got a "you declared war on our friend" penalty so you really wanted to encourage the AI to DoW you).
Also, some warmongers fight, sign a peace treaty, fight again, sign peace, repeat ad nauseum etc.
Ideally if you want to maintain the best relations with other civs, once the other civ wars on you, do *not* sign peace with them (ever or until they're down to one city). Maintain a perpetual war, even if years go by without you actually fighting each other. (There might be a few cases, like with Monty, where you can sign peace knowing that he will very likely DoW you again in the near future).
trystero49
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2012
- Messages
- 515
I've never realized that I was allowed one "free" DoW. I remember one game very clearly when I was playing as Ethiopia on Immortal, and Boudicca declared war on one of my city states and captured it. So for the first time in the game I declared war on a civ. I sent over ironclads, destroyers, and marines to liberate my city state. I managed to do it, and then I left behind troops to support Warsaw from the invading Celts.
Because of this, I was denounced by the Maya and Sweden, who had been my friends from before 1 AD. I was really surprised, because Sweden and the Maya and I have been fighting a war with France, who declared war on me and then Sweden and then the Maya very early in the game.
My biggest disappointment with the war diplomacy hit is that the AI doesn't seem to take into account provocation or anything like that. I shouldn't be taking a diplo hit for liberating a city state that was under my protection. If anything, I should get a diplo benefit for civs that previously had relations with that state, say, were friends, or one time allies.
Some wars are provoked, and some are not. I hope one day a patch addresses this issue, because that would make this game even better.
Because of this, I was denounced by the Maya and Sweden, who had been my friends from before 1 AD. I was really surprised, because Sweden and the Maya and I have been fighting a war with France, who declared war on me and then Sweden and then the Maya very early in the game.
My biggest disappointment with the war diplomacy hit is that the AI doesn't seem to take into account provocation or anything like that. I shouldn't be taking a diplo hit for liberating a city state that was under my protection. If anything, I should get a diplo benefit for civs that previously had relations with that state, say, were friends, or one time allies.
Some wars are provoked, and some are not. I hope one day a patch addresses this issue, because that would make this game even better.
PostConsumerWat
Chieftain
basically the AI is wearing you guys down... of course they are going to flout diplomacy.
Wasn't it Caesar who said, " Et tu Brutes?" and then trusted Brutus cuts the birfday cake and gives the first slice to Caesar, his best friend.
I agree that added developments are much needed in the diplomacy... maybe more of a role playing element, and little side games, a la Oregon trail..
for the American side diplomacy game you could be Bush Sr, and you have to puke on that Japanese head of state's lap... etc...
Wasn't it Caesar who said, " Et tu Brutes?" and then trusted Brutus cuts the birfday cake and gives the first slice to Caesar, his best friend.
I agree that added developments are much needed in the diplomacy... maybe more of a role playing element, and little side games, a la Oregon trail..
for the American side diplomacy game you could be Bush Sr, and you have to puke on that Japanese head of state's lap... etc...
trystero49
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2012
- Messages
- 515
You could be Bush Junior, and awkwardly grab the German Chancellors shoulders.
I am playing a weird game as Bismarck on Emperor, where very early I invaded Rome with my army of brutes to take workers/destroy some units/pillage his land. He ended up giving me a bunch of gold for my trouble, and then two turns later asked if we can be friends.
We're still friends. That's a little odd, don't you think?
I am playing a weird game as Bismarck on Emperor, where very early I invaded Rome with my army of brutes to take workers/destroy some units/pillage his land. He ended up giving me a bunch of gold for my trouble, and then two turns later asked if we can be friends.
We're still friends. That's a little odd, don't you think?
If you feel the compelling need to DoW another civ, you may want to Denounce them first. This seems especially true if your relationship with them has them at Neutral, Guarded or Hostile. It more or less tells the other civs that you aren't being a warmonger, but that the other guy really does deserve a kick in the fanny.
My last game, I took the last city of a civ when 2 others asked me to join them in war and we've all denounced the offender (6 out of 7 civs) and they all arrived late, so I took the capital/last city and it never showed up as warmongering. The only civ to give me that warmonger status that game was my next opponent (Japan) and he was just mad that I was taking up space next to him.
The only real diplo hit all game was because at the start I had DoF's with 5 of the other 7 civ's (not Alex or Atilla, go figure), and when it was time to cut back Japan's power, I denounced him and then DoW'd and it seems the other civ's didn't like that I denounced a former friend, even though the DoF had run out. At least the hit was for denouncing a former ally, not warmonger. Finicky AI, at the time that DoF was struck, we were in BC time and something like 3000 years had past. Long memory!
TL,DR: Denounce before DoW can save you from the warmongering hit. Also leaving a small city for each civ goes a long way as genocide is generally not well liked.
My last game, I took the last city of a civ when 2 others asked me to join them in war and we've all denounced the offender (6 out of 7 civs) and they all arrived late, so I took the capital/last city and it never showed up as warmongering. The only civ to give me that warmonger status that game was my next opponent (Japan) and he was just mad that I was taking up space next to him.
The only real diplo hit all game was because at the start I had DoF's with 5 of the other 7 civ's (not Alex or Atilla, go figure), and when it was time to cut back Japan's power, I denounced him and then DoW'd and it seems the other civ's didn't like that I denounced a former friend, even though the DoF had run out. At least the hit was for denouncing a former ally, not warmonger. Finicky AI, at the time that DoF was struck, we were in BC time and something like 3000 years had past. Long memory!
TL,DR: Denounce before DoW can save you from the warmongering hit. Also leaving a small city for each civ goes a long way as genocide is generally not well liked.
black_kitten
Chieftain
Also, be careful with whom you sign defensive pacts. Even if you declare war on a civ because it attacked your ally, you will probably get a warmonger penalty for doing so. At the moment, defensive pacts are not implemented to represent official alliances but rather bilateral promises other civs are not necessarily informed about.
So, in terms of real world politics, it's not 'NATO strikes back as one member is attacked' but rather 'third party attacks aggressive civ, maybe to punish them, but maybe they're only petty opportunists - who knows', and this is considered warmongering by the AI.
Even worse, you can get an extra penalty if you happen to have a declaration of friendship with the aggressor, so if you are the good guy everybody loves you will still not want to sign a defensive pact with a civ all the others hate, despite any impulse to defend the underdog.
So, in terms of real world politics, it's not 'NATO strikes back as one member is attacked' but rather 'third party attacks aggressive civ, maybe to punish them, but maybe they're only petty opportunists - who knows', and this is considered warmongering by the AI.
Even worse, you can get an extra penalty if you happen to have a declaration of friendship with the aggressor, so if you are the good guy everybody loves you will still not want to sign a defensive pact with a civ all the others hate, despite any impulse to defend the underdog.
Well, the current implementation is actually rather fitting historically, given the number of past secret defense treaties. In fact, these are commonly cited as a contributing factor to World War I.
So I rather like how there is the potential for everyone to get involved because they signed Defense Pacts they thought they'd never need to honor....
