There has to be a way to avoid this "cruel" play by the AI!
How can you avoid having a captured city deposed?
- Thread starter EMan
- Start date
Fierro1816
The bearded man
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2001
- Messages
- 156
LOOOOOOOOOTS of troops, cultural buildings and destroying the civ in question. Also, starve them... (less people to depose you!)
BillChin
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 494
Plan A: capture another city very quickly. This greatly reduces the chance of a flip. Rush build temple, library, cathedral in the captured city. The extension of this plan is total elimination of that culture.
Plan B: Don't sweat the flips. Just station a few troops outside of the city to take it back if it flips. This may have to be repeated, but it makes the game a lot more fun to play. Do not garrison a lot of troops unless you can afford to lose them all. Flipping is a minor issue if you station troops outside the city. Resistance matters little because conquered cities are rarely good production cities.
Plan C: Raze the city and bring your own settler. Chance of flip is a lot lower with your citizens. Rush build a temple, library.
Plan B: Don't sweat the flips. Just station a few troops outside of the city to take it back if it flips. This may have to be repeated, but it makes the game a lot more fun to play. Do not garrison a lot of troops unless you can afford to lose them all. Flipping is a minor issue if you station troops outside the city. Resistance matters little because conquered cities are rarely good production cities.
Plan C: Raze the city and bring your own settler. Chance of flip is a lot lower with your citizens. Rush build a temple, library.
Hurricane
Sleeping Dragon
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2001
- Messages
- 1,197
It´s best to be in Despotism or Communism. This way you can rush temples and libraries with the city population as soon as you get it out of resistance. You get a few improvements for free and a size 1 city. Of course there is still a chance it will defect, but it´s not much of a problem.
Fanny Brice
Prince
Check this out from Apolyton. They actually reference the Civfanactics site in the lead-in.
"Culture-Flipping Exposed"
http://apolyton.net/civ3/strategy/
Bottom line... keep the people as happy as possible.
Starving them out is a strategy I use. Once they are down to one, concentrate on rapid growth and you will have more of your own people in there. This does not insure against a flip, but helps.
My advice, learned the hard way, is to not station a lot of troops in that city. Once it flips they are all gone. Troops are not that important in holding the city once the rebellion is put down.
As part of an attack strategy, bring your own settlers and use them to establish a city or two for a more or less reliable base. Raze nearby enemy cities you capture to clear a "culture-free" zone... save the roads and improvements... but if outside of anyone's zone of control... any army can use them. So beware that your enemies can still move fast toward you.
Also, if you involved in a war of annihilation, keep in mind that the computer civs will jump at any chance to settle any land anywhere. If you are razing city after city, you are creating a new land rush. (In game I just played, the Zulus wiped out a well established German civ... razing half of their cities and keeping others. Then the French came through and the process repeated opening up a large area of the board. All civs rushed settlers to the area and the result was an interesting patchwork of multicolored zones of control.)
"Culture-Flipping Exposed"
http://apolyton.net/civ3/strategy/
Bottom line... keep the people as happy as possible.
Starving them out is a strategy I use. Once they are down to one, concentrate on rapid growth and you will have more of your own people in there. This does not insure against a flip, but helps.
My advice, learned the hard way, is to not station a lot of troops in that city. Once it flips they are all gone. Troops are not that important in holding the city once the rebellion is put down.
As part of an attack strategy, bring your own settlers and use them to establish a city or two for a more or less reliable base. Raze nearby enemy cities you capture to clear a "culture-free" zone... save the roads and improvements... but if outside of anyone's zone of control... any army can use them. So beware that your enemies can still move fast toward you.
Also, if you involved in a war of annihilation, keep in mind that the computer civs will jump at any chance to settle any land anywhere. If you are razing city after city, you are creating a new land rush. (In game I just played, the Zulus wiped out a well established German civ... razing half of their cities and keeping others. Then the French came through and the process repeated opening up a large area of the board. All civs rushed settlers to the area and the result was an interesting patchwork of multicolored zones of control.)
jorge_roberto
Warlord
1- Bombard the city. When the size is 6 or less, atack it.
2- Raze some cities after the captured city.
3- Starvation is a option. Then, join some workes to the city.
4- Rush cultural buildings. Temples, Library and then cathedral.
5- Build temples, libraries and cathedrals in your cities next to the captured city.
If think it's enough.
Jorge
2- Raze some cities after the captured city.
3- Starvation is a option. Then, join some workes to the city.
4- Rush cultural buildings. Temples, Library and then cathedral.
5- Build temples, libraries and cathedrals in your cities next to the captured city.
If think it's enough.
Jorge
Zachriel
Kaiser
You do not have to destroy the village to save it.
When conquering you will often have the situation of having captured a city, which of course has no culture, and being surrounded by old, culturally significant cities.
First use TOTAL CONTROL. That is, station as many troops as there are resistors. Once the city is under control move your troops out, except as required for defense.
Meanwhile, be sure to initiate your culture build. Normally, build the temple first. You need to know how fast it must be erected. This is mostly due to proximity of the capitals, and other local, culturally significant cities. Normally, just wait for the first turn out of resistance and buy the Temple. However, if you fear an immediate flip, then force-build your temple while the city is still in resistance by disbanding obsolete or damaged non-elite units. This may cost a few shields, but will allow you to capture and hold the city intact. Then rush the Library or Cathedral.
When Cyrus the Great conquered Babylon, he freed the Jews held captive there, and then financed the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem. This solidified Persian rule in the Levant and ensured Jewish loyalty.
When conquering you will often have the situation of having captured a city, which of course has no culture, and being surrounded by old, culturally significant cities.
First use TOTAL CONTROL. That is, station as many troops as there are resistors. Once the city is under control move your troops out, except as required for defense.
Meanwhile, be sure to initiate your culture build. Normally, build the temple first. You need to know how fast it must be erected. This is mostly due to proximity of the capitals, and other local, culturally significant cities. Normally, just wait for the first turn out of resistance and buy the Temple. However, if you fear an immediate flip, then force-build your temple while the city is still in resistance by disbanding obsolete or damaged non-elite units. This may cost a few shields, but will allow you to capture and hold the city intact. Then rush the Library or Cathedral.
When Cyrus the Great conquered Babylon, he freed the Jews held captive there, and then financed the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem. This solidified Persian rule in the Levant and ensured Jewish loyalty.
I hope you appreciate the sick and absurd irony of this.
In a game that over-emphasizes "Culture", we are forced as game-players to act as genocidal barbarians slaughtering huge populations in order to win! :crazyeyes
It also means no democracy can ever fight a winning war.
Culture Flipping remains a crock - historically, in terms of playability, and just logically, also.
Zachriel
Kaiser
Maybe you missed my post directly above yours. It is not necessary to destroy the village to save it. For centuries, tyrants have destroyed because of their mad desire for power. Does that sound familiar?
Destroying is easy. Culture is hard.
You do not have to raze or reduce the city to 1 to hold it. But, depending on culture, you may have to remove the civ from the board to hold their cities.
As I took Aztec, the cities began flipping during the campaign. Their total culture was about equal to mine. When I captured a city, I had only the basic diamond of control, of course, and move troops out to the next conquest as soon as they healed, and resistance was down. Cities began flipping behind me. Not all, but one every turn or so. When they did, I noticed that their zone of control included everything not in my basic diamonds. Even thought the city now had no culture installed, they did have a massive culture memory, as mentioned in Dan's post.
There is some irony here. Democracies don't like war, in general. THe US had massive internal resistance to involvement in war in WW I, WW II, and Vietnam. My guess is that fully half the peopl did not want to be in those wars. Didn't bring down the government, but I suspect that is a possibility.
My democracy has fallen twice in this campaign. When it came back out the first time, I made sure every city was at least content, leaving no unhappy people anywhere except to avoid starvation. Maybe I should have let them starve, because one turn later it collapsed again.
True, I was the agressor, and it was not a just war. BAsic reason: to win the game, to rule the world.
Here is the irony> Winning by culture requires a high score, culture more than twice your nearest civ. At least one of the civs will build culture--in my current game it is (was) Aztec and China. Every cultural improvement possible in every city. If both of you do that, then the only way to beat his culture is to remove it. If both have 30 cities producing max culture, it is logically impossible to double his score. Reducing his empire size will slow his culture growth, but the old accumulated culture remains.
I have won by culture without war, at chieftain level. Not on higher levels... The only way I see to win by culture is to make war. ANd then you might as well just conquer them.
As I took Aztec, the cities began flipping during the campaign. Their total culture was about equal to mine. When I captured a city, I had only the basic diamond of control, of course, and move troops out to the next conquest as soon as they healed, and resistance was down. Cities began flipping behind me. Not all, but one every turn or so. When they did, I noticed that their zone of control included everything not in my basic diamonds. Even thought the city now had no culture installed, they did have a massive culture memory, as mentioned in Dan's post.
There is some irony here. Democracies don't like war, in general. THe US had massive internal resistance to involvement in war in WW I, WW II, and Vietnam. My guess is that fully half the peopl did not want to be in those wars. Didn't bring down the government, but I suspect that is a possibility.
My democracy has fallen twice in this campaign. When it came back out the first time, I made sure every city was at least content, leaving no unhappy people anywhere except to avoid starvation. Maybe I should have let them starve, because one turn later it collapsed again.
True, I was the agressor, and it was not a just war. BAsic reason: to win the game, to rule the world.
Here is the irony> Winning by culture requires a high score, culture more than twice your nearest civ. At least one of the civs will build culture--in my current game it is (was) Aztec and China. Every cultural improvement possible in every city. If both of you do that, then the only way to beat his culture is to remove it. If both have 30 cities producing max culture, it is logically impossible to double his score. Reducing his empire size will slow his culture growth, but the old accumulated culture remains.
I have won by culture without war, at chieftain level. Not on higher levels... The only way I see to win by culture is to make war. ANd then you might as well just conquer them.
Zachriel
Kaiser
Subduing the Civ is parallel to Wellington in India.
I don't seek war, but war finds me. (In other words, you can play the good guy and still conquer plenty.)
Apart from the ways yet described here to deal with flipping I'd like to suggest one other element and that is the relative position of a captured city to the original empire of that city.
In simple terms, a captured city surrounded by a lot of heritage culture is much more likely to flip opposed to one that is not. So that means that strategically it is more advantageous to start a two front war from the sides rather than a single front right to the capital for instance. I've done so in the last game played and it does not eliminate flipping but makes it a nuisance rather then anything else.
It's an observation, I rarely do any razing, yet acquired culturally superiour civs this way.
Thoughts, experiences?
In simple terms, a captured city surrounded by a lot of heritage culture is much more likely to flip opposed to one that is not. So that means that strategically it is more advantageous to start a two front war from the sides rather than a single front right to the capital for instance. I've done so in the last game played and it does not eliminate flipping but makes it a nuisance rather then anything else.
It's an observation, I rarely do any razing, yet acquired culturally superiour civs this way.
Thoughts, experiences?
I've had very odd culture flips. In one case I had pounded Persia completely off the continent. They had only three cities split between two islands. For some reason, a city on the far side of my empire flipped to Persia. Not a big deal, I took it back the next turn but I was stilled surprised. They were literally nearly half a huge map away from the remaining Persian cities and yet they still went over. So much for not having touching borders.
The thing that kills me is, in the same game, there was a Chinese city in the middle of my country for most of the early part of the game. Completely surrounded by culture rich cities and yet it never flipped to me. I eventually had to take it but I waited a long time first because I wanted a freebie and wasn't ready for a war.
The thing that kills me is, in the same game, there was a Chinese city in the middle of my country for most of the early part of the game. Completely surrounded by culture rich cities and yet it never flipped to me. I eventually had to take it but I waited a long time first because I wanted a freebie and wasn't ready for a war.
