How could units move through rivers without conflicting with cultural borders?

[Blitzscream]

I was thinking about this really hard and it almost seems impossible for the ability of units like maybe a gun boat moving on a river tile with out conflicting with cultural borders.

You guys have any ideas how it could work?

 

[Ddude97]

I was thinking about this really hard and it almost seems impossible for the ability of units like maybe a gun boat moving on a river tile with out conflicting with cultural borders.

You guys have any ideas how it could work?

I'm confused as to what you're thinking..
Do you mean that we should add gunboats to the games that go on rivers but you don't know how it would work with cultural borders?

 

[builer680]

I was thinking about this really hard and it almost seems impossible for the ability of units like maybe a gun boat moving on a river tile with out conflicting with cultural borders.

You guys have any ideas how it could work?

This would require making Rivers go through tiles again, like they used to. Currently, they are on the edges of tiles. Then it would require all River/cultural border tiles to be "neutral." This wouldn't always be practical or natural looking, as much as it may be realistic.

 

[Ddude97]

Personally, I like the way work currently (though not the way they look)

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Also since rivers are between tiles, where is the unit?

 

[builer680]

Also since rivers are between tiles, where is the unit?

Read my post above. Accomplishing what he's asking for would require changing back to an older way of handling Rivers.

 

[joyous_gard]

Add it as a city building or something or national wonder... Gun Boat Patrol NW does some damage yada yada yada

 

[cavilier210]

I suppose the gunboat could follow facets of the tile, instead of occupying the tile.

 

[lschnarch]

As long as borders are just "left" and "right" of the river there shouldn't be any problem.

The problem occurs, however, as soon as there are units left and right. You would have to display the unit left of the river, the unit right of the river and the boat itself. And this for all kind of zooming factors. Wouldn't look very good, as I think.

Bringing back the river into the middle of the tile would cause conflicts with the current border system, at least with determining the river tiles production. Should it provide food like any land tile does, or should it provide food like fish?
And what about borders? Typically, rivers are forming borders. But if the river is in the middle, and you occupy that tile (may it be culturally or in which way ever), where should the border run along? At the river banks, leaving "half of the tile" unoccupied? Or would the border extend to the other side of the tile, thus indicating that you've occupied the opposite river banks and a little bit of the land on the other side, too?

 

[Blitzscream]

To make sure you guys know what im talking about is that rivers have always been involved in wars and so why not allow specialized so called riverboat or boats that can go through rivers but are not huge like a aircraft carrier. The reason I mention cultural borders is because a lot of borders end at rivers but, I can't find a way for borders to reach rivers and for units to go through rivers.

Does the idea of having a separate tile system for navel units and land units that over laps. (but then again after thinking that doesn't make much sense either.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Bringing back the river into the middle of the tile would cause conflicts with the current border system, at least with determining the river tiles production. Should it provide food like any land tile does, or should it provide food like fish? ?

In my vision, Navigable rivers would run through the middle of the hex, and unnavigable rivers would run between hexes as is. Both could be bridged by a worker. A navigable hex would essentially be a water hex, providing a similar yield and similar special resources. I'd probably make cities connected by navigable river have the production bonus of a railroad without the maintenance.

And what about borders? Typically, rivers are forming borders. But if the river is in the middle, and you occupy that tile (may it be culturally or in which way ever), where should the border run along? At the river banks, leaving "half of the tile" unoccupied? Or would the border extend to the other side of the tile, thus indicating that you've occupied the opposite river banks and a little bit of the land on the other side, too?

As for borders, it would be essentially neutral territory. Graphically, the border could run down the center of the river , or on both sides of it. Whatever looks pretty.

A unit crossing a navigable river where there was no bridge would have to embark.
A unit that ended a turn on a bridge would not.

 

[Rooftrellen]

You ask a question that has caused MANY wars.

For a game like this, I would say rivers should always belong to both sides that own one, but in reality, it's quite a complex question.

 

[oawiefga]

Movement on rivers has always been restricted by whatever power controls the river's banks. The only times in history that a foreign power has been able to maintain a military presence on an inland waterway has been when a region has lacked a strong government and/or national identity. China in the 19th and early 20th century is an example. Many western powers maintained gunboat flotillas on china's rivers during the period.

 

[Polish]

Moot anyway since the game ignores brown water navies.

 

[cavilier210]

I suppose this would just add to unit clutter. What would be the strategic role of having gunboats in the rivers?

 

[UWHabs]

You could design it if you added a new tile type, "river" that would be an entirely water tile. Then you just need some sort of designation for which ships (and land units) which could use the river (so you would allow ironclads on it, but not destroyers). You could also allow a "marine" type unit to go on the river, but force other land units to embark to cross. Then you could even add a "bridge" structure that you could build over it at some point, allowing units to cross it like a road (but maybe not allow land units to stop on it, which could be done by tricking the system to think that there's already a land unit on the tile, I'm sure).

It's the type of thing that you could do, and it would be interesting, but how useful is another question. You'd have 2 classes of rivers, navigable and non-navigable. I wouldn't mind the idea, but I'm not sure if it really adds all that much that's not already in the game.