How did face masks become so political?

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ywhtptgtfo

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China's policies are good now, but let's not forget, that China inflicted the pandemic on the world back in 2020.


Oh, here we go again. Wuhan locked down in mid-Jan 2020 and COVID arrived in NYC in March 2020. There were 10 weeks for Western governments to react while China was hard locking down the entire country.
By April 2020, China got the infections within the country back down to almost zero.

In the mean time, NA and EU countries squandered the weeks of advanced warning they got and allowed it to spread like wildfire. Nations like Netherlands and Canada repeated asserted that they were ready for this. There was a lot of over-confidence across the board and when the cases started spiking, measures were hampered by political infighting, knee jerk responses, and non-compliance.

China has its part in starting the pandemic but just as the Grenfell fire in UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire) was ultimately an issue with the building being unsound for fire safety, the whole world was simply ill-equipped to deal with any pandemics, which is a fact that the likes of BIll Gates had repeatedly raised and been ignored at.
 
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Aiken_Drumn

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Farm Boy

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Yeah, but there's always the next philosopher's stone.

It's turtles, all the way down.
 

Angst

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Yeah, but there's always the next philosopher's stone.

It's turtles, all the way down.
sidenote but i hope so. john green's work is amazing. while i laud different forms of nonrealism and the success of stuff like harry potter (in spite of everything in those books), green's writing is just very real and sombre while capturing the natural levity of people affected with the topics he explores.
 

Uncle Paul

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Oh, here we go again. Wuhan locked down in mid-Jan 2020 and COVID arrived in NYC in March 2020. There were 10 weeks for Western governments to react while China was hard locking down the entire country.
By April 2020, China got the infections within the country back down to almost zero.

In the mean time, NA and EU countries squandered the weeks of advanced warning they got and allowed it to spread like wildfire. Nations like Netherlands and Canada repeated asserted that they were ready for this. There was a lot of over-confidence across the board and when the cases started spiking, measures were hampered by political infighting, knee jerk responses, and non-compliance.

China has its part in starting the pandemic but just as the Grenfell fire in UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire) was ultimately an issue with the building being unsound for fire safety, the whole world was simply ill-equipped to deal with any pandemics, which is a fact that the likes of BIll Gates had repeatedly raised and been ignored at.
Xi Jinping didn't want China to be the only country to take an economic hit from the pandemic, so he exported it globally.
 

ywhtptgtfo

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Xi Jinping didn't want China to be the only country to take an economic hit from the pandemic, so he exported it globally.
You know, InfoWars is a very good fit for your consumption. Watch it some time. You may find a lot of like-minded audience there too.
And then there's Joe Rogan's podcasts. That also shouldn't disappoint.
 

Uncle Paul

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You know, InfoWars is a very good fit for your consumption. Watch it some time. You may find a lot of like-minded audience there too.
And then there's Joe Rogan's podcasts. That also shouldn't disappoint.
Joe Rogan, COVID denier and anti-vaxxer? No thanks!
 

Samson

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TheMeInTeam

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And those who do not obey orders and get shot by the military as part of an operation to restore order are acceptable casualties from my perspective.
obeying illegal orders is also bad. this kind of stance results in increasingly more "acceptable" casualties, from the perspective of the shooters. not a good path.
Personally, I think using the computer or TV is far more enjoyable than socializing with others or clubbing, which is degenerate behavior.
preferences are fine and all. and you can also call w/e degenerate but there's no objective basis in it.
Why were most maskless people in bars female last year? Or even in 2020?
was that true in general? i would be surprised if good data for that was even collected
I'd rather have teenagers be depressed than have senior citizens die.
everyone dies. we're trying to have less death rather than more. you don't seem to be grasping the concept. lockdowns kill people, period. covid kills people, period. ideally, you pick the best policy that minimizes the total early dying.

it is painfully obvious that you don't know what that policy is. probably nobody or very few people actually do know. it's odd to keep pretending otherwise.
Then shutter it!
nah
 

Uncle Paul

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I cannot catch up on this thread, so this may have been posted:


Mask-wearing percentages across gender, age, and location.
I think that's based on self-report, I know that many females who I went to school with (I haven't been in school for several years) were out maskless in bars, etc...while I stayed at home on my computer.
obeying illegal orders is also bad. this kind of stance results in increasingly more "acceptable" casualties, from the perspective of the shooters. not a good path.
There is no such thing as an illegal order, as long as the order was given by the legitimate rulers.
preferences are fine and all. and you can also call w/e degenerate but there's no objective basis in it.
w/e?
was that true in general? i would be surprised if good data for that was even collected
It's based on my observations.
everyone dies. we're trying to have less death rather than more. you don't seem to be grasping the concept. lockdowns kill people, period. covid kills people, period. ideally, you pick the best policy that minimizes the total early dying.
Lockdowns don't kill people. If someone is such an emotional weakling that having to talk with their friends via a video call is so hard on them, then do they really matter?
it is painfully obvious that you don't know what that policy is. probably nobody or very few people actually do know. it's odd to keep pretending otherwise.

nah
*facepalm*
 

Samson

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Lexicus

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I think that's based on self-report, I know that many females who I went to school with (I haven't been in school for several years) were out maskless in bars, etc...while I stayed at home on my computer.

Dudes posting their Ls online

Quick question were you studying the blade on your computer or doing something else
 

TheMeInTeam

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There is no such thing as an illegal order, as long as the order was given by the legitimate rulers.
i'm not sure you're aware of this, but there is deliberate separation of powers in the us government, by design.

attempting to use osha far outside of its scope, attempting to use private organizations to bypass restrictions on government power, seizing property/searching, and federal mandate attempts were all illegal, and in some cases ruled as such by the courts. though the courts have their own problems with being fair too.

similarly, there are things even military officers are not allowed to order, according to law. a soldier acting on such an order is in violation of the law, in contrast to what you describe. the stance you took earlier is the realm of dictators and war crimes.

if you believe that those things result in "acceptable casualties", remember that you personally can wind up being one of those "acceptable casualties".

if you don't have a good reason to compel people to do or not to do things, why do other people need a good reason to compel you similarly?

It's based on my observations.
drawing broad conclusions from anecdotes is junk. it does not result in accurate conclusions or make good future predictions.

Lockdowns don't kill people.
"lockdowns don't kill people" and "covid doesn't kill people" are statements with equal evidential support.

do they really matter?
explain why your opinion matters more than theirs, in particular.

*facepalm*
that's my line lol. you're advocating broad dictator policies and making assertions about how the government should constrain actions of people w/o any burden of evidence. if you want to live in countries like that, you have quite a few different flavors to choose from that are a plane ticket away.

You know, InfoWars is a very good fit for your consumption. Watch it some time. You may find a lot of like-minded audience there too.
infowars at least tries to use evidence. sometimes it's fake evidence. other times conclusions are attempted from evidence which does not support them. but at least you can look at it and point out why, precisely, it's wrong when that happens.

"i have this random anecdote that informs my belief, fully intend to use only it/ignore data, and want to control people without needing any evidence whatsoever" strikes me as even harder to work with. but then again, that stance is also openly advocating for more authoritarianism, removal of separation of powers, and forced policy with no more basis than "because i said so". as a policy stance, that is much, much more dangerous than infowars, which appears to be memeing a good % of the time.

or to put it another way: infowars is a path of individuals making stupid choices. 0 basis authoritarianism is how we get governments slaughtering millions for the "greater good". we've seen the latter plenty of times, from ussr to germany to china and many smaller nations alongside them. different "reasons" for mass murder, but same end point of fake ideology authoritarianism. frankly, i'd rather live in a country that allows infowars on principle than a country that does not (and as a result openly slaughters dissenters).
 

Aiken_Drumn

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I think that's based on self-report, I know that many females who I went to school with (I haven't been in school for several years) were out maskless in bars, etc...while I stayed at home on my computer.
Did they not invite you?
 

Narz

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Lockdowns don't kill people. If someone is such an emotional weakling that having to talk with their friends via a video call is so hard on them, then do they really matter?
You feel powerful that you don't need people but yet here you are...

It's not a matter of being an emotional weakling, simply human. Loneliness is worse for you than a pack of smokes a day. The stresses of isolation, unemployment & lack of exercise and even lack of nature can be quantified.

Your ideas seem less based on any data & more on the fact that you're not having any fun so why should anyone else.
 

Uncle Paul

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No, it is based on visiting shops and looking.
Perhaps in the older generations, it's true, but young women (i.e. 16-30 or so) were the most reckless of all groups and are the most selfish of all groups.
Dudes posting their Ls online
L stands for Lexicus
Quick question were you studying the blade on your computer or doing something else
I was playing games, watching videos, listening to music, etc...
i'm not sure you're aware of this, but there is deliberate separation of powers in the us government, by design.

attempting to use osha far outside of its scope, attempting to use private organizations to bypass restrictions on government power, seizing property/searching, and federal mandate attempts were all illegal, and in some cases ruled as such by the courts. though the courts have their own problems with being fair too.

similarly, there are things even military officers are not allowed to order, according to law. a soldier acting on such an order is in violation of the law, in contrast to what you describe. the stance you took earlier is the realm of dictators and war crimes.
The US government is poorly designed.
if you believe that those things result in "acceptable casualties", remember that you personally can wind up being one of those "acceptable casualties".
Fair enough.
if you don't have a good reason to compel people to do or not to do things, why do other people need a good reason to compel you similarly?
Stopping the spread of COVID is a good reason.
drawing broad conclusions from anecdotes is junk. it does not result in accurate conclusions or make good future predictions.


"lockdowns don't kill people" and "covid doesn't kill people" are statements with equal evidential support.
COVID is a deadly disease. Lockdowns aren't.
explain why your opinion matters more than theirs, in particular.
If you are so emotionally weak that you can't bear to FaceTime your friends instead of seeing them in person, no offense, but you are not a valuable member of society.
that's my line lol. you're advocating broad dictator policies and making assertions about how the government should constrain actions of people w/o any burden of evidence. if you want to live in countries like that, you have quite a few different flavors to choose from that are a plane ticket away.
I am advocating for a hybrid semi-democratic, semi-authoritarian government.
infowars at least tries to use evidence. sometimes it's fake evidence. other times conclusions are attempted from evidence which does not support them. but at least you can look at it and point out why, precisely, it's wrong when that happens.

"i have this random anecdote that informs my belief, fully intend to use only it/ignore data, and want to control people without needing any evidence whatsoever" strikes me as even harder to work with. but then again, that stance is also openly advocating for more authoritarianism, removal of separation of powers, and forced policy with no more basis than "because i said so". as a policy stance, that is much, much more dangerous than infowars, which appears to be memeing a good % of the time.

or to put it another way: infowars is a path of individuals making stupid choices. 0 basis authoritarianism is how we get governments slaughtering millions for the "greater good". we've seen the latter plenty of times, from ussr to germany to china and many smaller nations alongside them. different "reasons" for mass murder, but same end point of fake ideology authoritarianism. frankly, i'd rather live in a country that allows infowars on principle than a country that does not (and as a result openly slaughters dissenters).
Some dissidents are a threat to the stability of the nation, and while I would prefer to merely imprison them instead of slaughtering them, allowing them to destabilize the nation is the worst of those three options.
Did they not invite you?
I wouldn't have gone even if they had.
You feel powerful that you don't need people but yet here you are...
This is enough for me...I don't need to see people in person.
It's not a matter of being an emotional weakling, simply human. Loneliness is worse for you than a pack of smokes a day. The stresses of isolation, unemployment & lack of exercise and even lack of nature can be quantified.
Unless you want to be "physically intimate" with someone, there's no reason that talking to them over FaceTime isn't just as good as seeing them in person.
Your ideas seem less based on any data & more on the fact that you're not having any fun so why should anyone else.
I have a lot of fun, it's just for me, fun doesn't mean some drunk "party girl" rubbing her butt on my crotch while listening to obnoxious (c)rap music.
 

Narz

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Unless you want to be "physically intimate" with someone, there's no reason that talking to them over FaceTime isn't just as good as seeing them in person.
I like being around people. I hate video calls. Kids these days spending 10+ hours a day on screens is making them all into weirdos w no social skills. The lockdowns made it all worse. It's really sad.

I have a lot of fun, it's just for me, fun doesn't mean some drunk "party girl" rubbing her butt on my crotch while listening to obnoxious (c)rap music.
I agree that clubs are horrible environments.
 
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