[BTS] How do I get out of an economic situation like this? (Immortal Isolated game)

[CGQ]

So I started playing an old game from two years ago (continents, no huts/events). The leader is Bismark and I had this nice double corn start. I met my very close neighbor Pacal II and when I found I had copper I did a nice Axe rush and with only 8 axes was able to take all his 3 cities filled with holkans and archers. He has a very beautiful capital with a lot of food! I expanded further up to 12 cities but my economy is utter trash. Besides gold, there are no other happiness resources (elephants are jungle-walled) and calendar is light-years away. I'm in 125 AD and I'm over here limping towards monarchy, which I feel by time I even get it it won't make a difference anymore.

Interestingly first time I played to 1 AD I realized I didn't have masonry which was very stupid having both stone, marble + industrious. I also noticed the mids haven't been built yet so I reloaded to 950 BC and went for masonry to build mids. This time the mids finished in 450 BC before I could even start. Wtf.

I was able to avoid strikes by breaking my #1 rule and not working food specials for 2-3 turns so I can work commerce tiles but every new city I settled would be another -10. I tried settling another gold tile out of desperation but the -16 was too much. Maybe I expanded too quick?

Spoiler Help! :

My intention is to eventually bulb optics and then double Astro but I think I'm screwed on this one. Mids could've absolutely helped here...I could've really used REP in this map both for happiness and the extra science. So much food but so little happiness to take advantage of it
I managed to get 54 fail gold for TOA that's it.

Is this even playable or should I just start over? I rarely ever play ISO games so I don't know if this is normal for this type of situation I'm in or if there's somewhere that I went very, very, wrong?


I attached the current save and the 4000 BC starting save for those who want to play this map. It's a fairly interesting one that has baffled me for two years now. (I'm frankly a bit peeved at myself that I still can't beat it after two years lol)

 

[Gumbolt]

Looked at the 125ad and that feels lost.
Lots of cities. Losing 1 gold a turn and cities already running commerce tiles to stay afloat.
Far too few workers for 12 cities and even without rivers you needed much more cottages.
You had ivory but hard to use it without a new city.
You have a GS and could fire a golden age or bulb maths. Then with option to fail gold HG. Whipping aqueducts is not great.

Golden age would enable 6-7 turn alphabet allowing you to run research.

I just think this is all too much for 125ad. Killing off Pascal killed off your trade routes too. Would have been better to let him get alphabet so you could demand techs from peace.

Not looked at the other save.

You didn't let Pascal build any cottages?

 

[Fippy]

I don't think any Imm game with so much land is lost
With some more food dropping i can get Monarchy in 4t with 0gpt (which exits strike). GS can be settled or an academy which isn't great yet, but at least bonifies 2 scientists. Or maths as Gumbo said.
HR will stabilize things a bit more, turning unhappies into working more coast or cottages as they get built. Then you basically make sure that cities only grow more when they stay happy, and can add another cottage or scientist.

This phase will be slow, but you basically just need Aest + Lit for failgold buildup next.
Even if Parth, Glib and such go earlier than expected..NE & HE can be really milked with 150% bonus.

 

[CGQ]

I don't think any Imm game with so much land is lost
With some more food dropping i can get Monarchy in 4t with 0gpt (which exits strike). GS can be settled or an academy which isn't great yet, but at least bonifies 2 scientists. Or maths as Gumbo said.
HR will stabilize things a bit more, turning unhappies into working more coast or cottages as they get built. Then you basically make sure that cities only grow more when they stay happy, and can add another cottage or scientist.

This phase will be slow, but you basically just need Aest + Lit for failgold buildup next.
Even if Parth, Glib and such go earlier than expected..NE & HE can be really milked with 150% bonus.

I went back and replayed a bunch of turns and actually managed to build the Mids this time around. Is this a better position than last one?

 

[Gumbolt]

Lost was a bit unfair. With so much land eventually you would be catching up. The cottages would develop over next 10-15 turns. Some were under 10 turns. Specialists too grinding out science. There is very little commerce on this map. Fail gold on SH or GW that would of been good early on. Or wonder spamming.

I really don't think Pascal would of been that much of a threat early on. With your latest save you show that stone was in reach albeit roads required. Always good to let the AI work the land and grab trade routes for commerce.

Emperor game. Change title?

 

[Gumbolt]

Actually you would need to pop myst from a hut. Or tech it.

 

[CGQ]

Emperor game. Change title?

It was originally emperor with huts on but I edited the XML and went through worldbuilder to disable them and change the difficulty to Immortal. I hope it worked lol.

 

[CGQ]

This is the hut-less immortal one

 

[Gumbolt]

Huts felt a bit silly with scout start.

This is the hut-less immortal one

AI start with 3 archers, 2 scouts and a worker on immortal. Plus more free techs. No worker will slow down the AI badly here.

This game is more about beating Pascal with an economy.

 

[CGQ]

Huts felt a bit silly with scout start.

AI start with 3 archers, 2 scouts and a worker on immortal. Plus more free techs. No worker will slow down the AI badly here.

This game is more about beating Pascal with an economy.

I created a worldbuilder save, took out the huts in XML, went to custom scenario and changed the difficulty to immortal. I thought that would work
Either way, I think I'm in a much better position here. I even got the GL built!

 

[Fippy]

Pyras rescue all problems yup, 2 Rep. scientists give 15 beakers / turn and you can expand as much as you want if you stay in + gpt.
You lost some focus with teching thou Monarchy isn't needed with Rep. and all you really need with Pyras is writing. Then prolly Literature.

edit: my comment was for the older save.

 

[Gumbolt]

Not nearly enough workers. 7 workers for 11 cities will never work. So much jungle too. Explains lack of cottages too.

I would cottage every tile around capital. You need commerce. Building Great Library does not save this game. Mids is good. You just lack an economy. Pascal with a worker at start might of spammed a few cottages.

Currency and wealth would help here. Latest save had no monarchy but guess Mylene looking at other save.

 

[Gumbolt]

Gave it a quick run to 100ad. Tough old game commerce wise but I got quite a few cottages up. Capital could run 10 cottages. Economy wise just about breaking even.
I got fail gold from SH, GW and Mids. Needed a lot more really. I built all three wonders. Captured Great lighthouse which is helping a bit.
Just finished a war with Mayan leaving him 1 city. Took some nice techs from peace. Took 1-3 unit losses per city.
Maths would be really good now for HG and to clear jungle. Not sure he has any workers but he could improve the iron. I have 12 workers. Philosophy went many years back.

Have a great spy but can burn on golden age. Need to check if any barb cities.

 

[CGQ]

Gave it a quick run to 100ad. Tough old game commerce wise but I got quite a few cottages up. Capital could run 10 cottages. Economy wise just about breaking even.
I got fail gold from SH, GW and Mids. Needed a lot more really. I built all three wonders. Captured Great lighthouse which is helping a bit.
Just finished a war with Mayan leaving him 1 city. Took some nice techs from peace. Took 1-3 unit losses per city.
Maths would be really good now for HG and to clear jungle. Not sure he has any workers but he could improve the iron. I have 12 workers. Philosophy went many years back.

Have a great spy but can burn on golden age. Need to check if any barb cities.

Nice! I kept playing into 1240 AD. Currency made a big difference. I forgot it gives you more trade routes! After that I went on to bulb optics then double-bulb ASTRO. Meeting other AI's gave me huge amounts of GPT. Major game changer. I can still be the first for Lib too! I think I'm in a much better position than I was earlier.

What do you think? What tech would you Lib here? What should I do going forward?

 

[Gumbolt]

Played on a bit more for comparison. Tech wise I have music and got G art. GS and Gspy to use. Lots of wonders being built for fail gold.

At 100% science I am taking in 344 beakers at 580ad. Almost 100 ahead of you at this date. The big difference is size of my capital at 11 running 10-11 cottages. Plus 15 workers compared to 7? Fail gold early on plus 480 from HG and another wonder the AI built. Leaving Pascal alive has helped me capture 3-4 workers and capture more cities. Captured 2 workers from barb city. Missed out on Hanging gardens but got fail gold. Took quite a bit from other wonders too. Great Library built in Mutal. I pre chopped 8-9 forest for fail gold once i had maths.

Economy is still at break even but running some scientists. Calendar will help for happiness. Need foreign trade routes. With all this land biggest risk to losing is the AP. Even being isolated I am still picking off Music and some key wonders. One more barb city to capture but these new cities are costing me 18-20 gold a turn. Maybe time for some court houses once I have COl. I will have a look at your 1240ad save.

Up to 1220ad. I have astronomy and MT. 2-3 turns off gunpowder. Bulbed edux1 lib x1. Astronomy x1 and PP x1. 8k worth of bulbs. About 774 at 100% science. Not met the other Ai yet. AP religion spread to me so that is a risk. Losing will to play this on.

Not sure I will finish my game as I can see where it is going and judging from your save the AI won't be doing much by time I reach them.

Okay your 1240ad.
No GS for lib? Guess you double bulbed astronomy instead. I would still go cuirs route but it looks like a slow trek. Shame you didn't take out the 2 barb cities they would each give 130-200+ gold. Plus workers. You have a lot of forest left that could/should be chopped for fail gold. Capital now size 14 which is great. Some cities seem quite small for this date with much unimproved land. Lack of workers up to 540ad has really cost you this game. This is a great gameto learn how to manage a weak commerce start. Trade routes with Pascal would of really helped early on.

 

[Gumbolt]

In terms of what to do going forward your 68 pop behind me with 4 less cities at 1220ad. These are size 10 cities your missing. Barb ones were great.

It could take you 7 turns to reach lib.Unless you have more fail gold lined up? Moai Statues would of been great for fail gold but you ignored this. I bulbed Lib before astronomy on my save. So lib was a one turn tech. 200-300 beakers left. Those extra 50-60 pop add 150-180 to each bulb. Maybe you should of gone edu bulb. lib bulb and then take astronomy for a 3250 beaker tech from lib. If you tech nationalism now you may well be beaten to lib as it will take you 15 turns for both. Maybe take nationalism from lib. If you plan to go cuirs? Otherwise plan UN or state property and a rifles war (Draft?)? Your continent land mass is worth 30% of all land. So you really only need to vassal 3-4 AI? You can take out the barb cities and settle the good land you skipped.

Your 10-15 tunrs off whipping units. Which leaves where I am but without the 70 units. You really wanted Nationalism sooner for the wonder.

On my game I have whipped cuirs (49), galleons (13) and frigates (8). I had 3 golden ages too to help speed up my game. I can whip another 7-8 cuirs this turn too. Currently 1410ad and not even started a war yet. Albeit troops in place.

Played on to 1570ad and it's all over.
Had 99% of starting continent secured culture wise.Took out China completely with cuirs who was at war with Monty at time and losing. CG3 muskets are quite a pain but thankfully had frigates. Wiped out Aztec army and 3-4 cities and he capitulated. He had 30-40 units roaming! Willem gave up quickly after losing 12 or so combats in a row. His stack was small but I attacked with cannons then cuirs. He capitulated the next turn. Zara lost 2-3 cities and gave in. Left Hammy alone as not needed as China land covered this. Musketeers were quite annoying with China. Cannons really helped. Won't post save as you are not done. No real spoilers as you had full map knowledge.