How do liberals feel about this?

[Zack]

Why would it be horrific?

 

[schlaufuchs]

Why would it be horrific?

Because it means that humans die because God intended humans to die, rather than humans dying because of the original sin committed by humans in the garden.

 

[Double A]

Dommy, what actually makes your religion undisputably right and everyone who says the same thing about theirs wrong? I seriously haven't heard an answer to this that wasn't synonymous with "BECAUSE, THAT'S WHY."

 

[innonimatu]

There is a quite a bit of economic literature though that suggests that the government's meddling on food price during the Great Depression did far more harm than good, by making food much more expensive for most people.

That was the whole point of the government's meddling at that time. Duh!

There was deflation. It was a bad thing. And the farmers suffered from deflation far more that the industry. Because farmers had less market power (e.g., were smaller in scale and didn't cartelize effectively) the prices of their products were falling faster than those of industry. This would have had catastrophic consequences on food production and on employment in the countryside if the government failed to intervene. Government intervention was designed to hold prices higher that the "market" would have caused them to float (at least temporarily).

But he, don't let an historical explanation hamper your political bias! State intervention = evil, always!

For the Framers that actually got into politics, the only time "big government" was bad was when "big government" was doing something they didn't like.

So whatever else is new?

 

[bhsup]

I would like you to scientifically prove to me that the Earth is only a few thousand years old, and that the Young Earth theory is truth.

You can't. For those that believe it, it is really a matter of faith more than anything else. Why should they have to prove scientifically something that is a matter of faith to them? Some believe that God created the world in such a way that it does seem to be billions of years old and created all the fossil evidence and so forth as a test of faith. They can no more prove YECism via science than just as you cannot actually prove to them that God didn't do that.

 

[Double A]

You can't. For those that believe it, it is really a matter of faith more than anything else. Why should they have to prove scientifically something that is a matter of faith to them? Some believe that God created the world in such a way that it does seem to be billions of years old and created all the fossil evidence and so forth as a test of faith. They can no more prove YECism via science than just as you cannot actually prove to them that God didn't do that.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWizardDidIt

 

[Old Hippy]

You know, I have kind of devil's advocated this argument before against other YECers. Obviously plants did die before the Fall. I could work it for animals as well, although the fact that animals inevitably suffer pain before death makes it really tricky. But I absolutely can't reconcile with human evolution. There's no doubt in my mind that this process, if true, is absolutely horiffic.

there is only one certainty in life and thats that you are going to die,(everything else is open to possibilities), whether its Gods plan or just the way things are, makes little difference, even if your going to 'believe' that you will get another chance in heaven, your still gonna die... and all the people before you sorta prove that this process is true. even Jesus did not escape the process, so one would think that, God is OK with it too, or its just the way it is...

now you can have your life, knowing that it is going to end up 'horrific' or you can just get on and live it.

 

[Double A]

You forgot taxes.

 

[Zack]

You can't. For those that believe it, it is really a matter of faith more than anything else. Why should they have to prove scientifically something that is a matter of faith to them? Some believe that God created the world in such a way that it does seem to be billions of years old and created all the fossil evidence and so forth as a test of faith. They can no more prove YECism via science than just as you cannot actually prove to them that God didn't do that.

You cannot prove that a pink unicorn didn't poop on Jesus on the cross, but that doesn't mean such a claim is anything but absurd.

 

[Mosher]

You can't. For those that believe it, it is really a matter of faith more than anything else. Why should they have to prove scientifically something that is a matter of faith to them? Some believe that God created the world in such a way that it does seem to be billions of years old and created all the fossil evidence and so forth as a test of faith. They can no more prove YECism via science than just as you cannot actually prove to them that God didn't do that.

"Because I believe!" isn't a valid argument.

We can, however, prove that God, if he exists, did not create the world 6,000 years ago

 

[bhsup]

unless got set up the radiometric data to come across that way.

 

[Borachio]

Yeah. Means nothing. The world could have come into being just a second ago. With all these fake memories implanted ready in your brain. Including some crazy ideas about God, and creationism, and evolution - just to cause a bit of stir, perhaps?

 

[Mosher]

unless got set up the radiometric data to come across that way.

God could also have planted the YEC idea to test how stupid his creations really were.

 

[Dachs]

those who gave their approval to a constitution with limited powers

In most cases, those were the same ones who also ignored the most restrictive interpretations of those "limited powers" when they actually had the ability to exercise authority under the Constitution. As Presidents, Jefferson and Madison cannot be said to have been "strict constructionists" in either the modern sense or their contemporary sense.

So whatever else is new?

Talking with certain people here is rather like banging one's head against a brick wall, yes.

 

[Old Hippy]

You forgot taxes.

No, just acknowledging that that evil will soon be a thing of the past, its just a temporary thing that the poor pay, till they get rich and can avoid it....

 

[Antilogic]

I like to ignore science sometimes, too.

If only I had that convenience.

You can't. For those that believe it, it is really a matter of faith more than anything else. Why should they have to prove scientifically something that is a matter of faith to them? Some believe that God created the world in such a way that it does seem to be billions of years old and created all the fossil evidence and so forth as a test of faith. They can no more prove YECism via science than just as you cannot actually prove to them that God didn't do that.

unless got set up the radiometric data to come across that way.

I see no need to believe in or worship such a deceptive and evil god.



EDIT: I have been meaning to go back through this thread and respond to stuff I missed on the last couple pages but time was short today--just assume I register my usual objections.

 

[Borachio]

I see no need to believe in or worship such a deceptive and evil god.

I'm curious. What sort of god would you see a need to believe in or worship?

 

[Antilogic]

I'm curious. What sort of god would you see a need to believe in or worship?

A demonstrably real and not-evil one. I've been very disappointed on that front.

 

[Borachio]

Why, if it's demonstrably real, is there a need to believe in it? I feel no need to believe in ham sandwiches for instance.

And if it's not evil, what benefit is there to be derived from believing in it? I can't think of good analogy here.

 

[Double A]

I'm curious. What sort of god would you see a need to believe in or worship?

Cthulhu.