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[GS] How do people feel about Spies?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by acluewithout, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Starwars

    Starwars Warlord

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    My favorite thing about the Recruit Partisans mission is when I use it on an enemy civ, and the rebels drive through the enemy's territory and start pillaging stuff in my territory instead. Thanks game!

    But yeah, I like the idea of it but the implementation is half-baked. And like has been mentioned before, I just don't build neighbourhoods to avoid the annoyance.

    I'd also like for the Remove governor and Forment unrest missions to be a bit more useful. It's pretty hard to use them in a meaningful way because of the time it takes to move spies around, plus the time it takes to complete the mission. Just feels like there should be a more natural way to use your spies if you want to use the loyalty mechanic.
     
    darkace77450, tedhebert and Sostratus like this.
  2. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I don't enjoy the spy game and never really have.
     
    shaglio likes this.
  3. shaky

    shaky Chieftain

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    I'd be happy enough if the Recruit Partisans mission was just a Recruit Defector mission, to steal 1 population from that city towards your own capital or something similar. Like many have said, in its current state, it just puts people off building Neighbourhoods altogether, which I assume wasn't what Firaxis had intended. Remove governor is a pain because I forget to put them back in when it happens to me, so a small QoL change would be for them to return automatically after the time is up. I'd also quite like a "steal strategic resource" mission.
     
    darkace77450 likes this.
  4. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I'm sure Recruit Partisans could be reworked to be better. But really, why bother? There's enough in the game as it is. I think better just to remove it and focus on something else.

    Remove Governors and Forment Unrest could be more impactful. Perhaps it should just be Forment Unrest and, if you're successful, there's an additional % chance you also remove the Governor.
     
    tedhebert and Bliss like this.
  5. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    I don't know if things were buggy in my last few games, but city bombard was taking off at most 20 hp from the recruited partisans, definitely not enough to deal with them.

    IMO, recruit partisans is fine in concept but needs tweaking. If they stay connected with neighborhoods, it should be easier to protect neighborhoods (perhaps a police station building option for neighborhoods that protects all neighborhoods within six tiles). And they definitely should not be getting the latest units. For more destruction, something along the lines of a very low success probability suitcase nuke mission (city center based) could be made available at an appropriate point.
     
    darkace77450 likes this.
  6. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    Oct 19, 2016
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    I'm actually that guy that loves the civ spy game but I agree it could be greatly improved.

    I think recruit partisan should be a city center action, chance of success, time to do it and what you get heavily influenced by big the city is and what they've got. So you do it in a size 1 city in the hinterlands, 100% success rate but you spawn a recon unit. You try it in the super built up capital with a fully complete encampment, 10% rate takes forever but actually spawns a considerable force if you pull it off.

    I'd also like to see it based on happiness, a large unhappy population should be easy to convince to revolt, whereas a super happy one should be like what, why? Same with loyalty, although loyalty is a mechanic I would rework entirely.

    Also they should burn down the city walls so you can't just autozap them all and forget about it.

    I would put Forment Unrest and Remove Governor together as one action - Destabilize or something like that.

    And then I would also change the counterspy mission to give an option to watch the borders so you can try to catch spies coming in and track them to wherever they're going, rather than just pray you picked the one commercial hub out of forty they try to steal from this time.
     
  7. RohirrimElf

    RohirrimElf Emperor

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    Spies are everywhere and i always start building them to late. Even do they are usefull for lots of stuff. I’m most fond of tech stealing and money siphoning.
     
  8. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    I like the Civ 6 espionage system but for ****s sake get rid of partisans
     
    acluewithout and RohirrimElf like this.
  9. Bitterman

    Bitterman Warlord

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    I find partisans really fun and don't understand the hate here.

    If you are struggling with them try to have a decent standing army strategically placed inside your territory and maybe defend yourself with counterspy. I'm sure many complaints here are due completely ignoring defense because dumb AI, which is never a thing when you are playing with more players.
     
    tedhebert likes this.
  10. James_Champagne

    James_Champagne Chieftain

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    One game I played last year I was (for various reasons) trying to get the Americans to go after the Zulus (the two civs were neighbors to each other), but for whatever reason America seemed hesitant to go to war with them, even though their military was vastly superior. So to try to speed things along I kept sending my spies to Zulu cities (near American ones) on quests to lessen the loyalty of those cities. Doing this, I was able to flip a few cities from Zulu control to American control. But it was a lot of busy work and even after a bunch of Zulu cities switched to them America still showed no inclination to invade, so eventually I just dropped it.
     
    darkace77450 likes this.
  11. crouchy

    crouchy Chieftain

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    To stop it you almost have to use your full quota of spies doing nothing but counterspying in neighbourhoods.

    Is there anything to be said for multiple spy actions in the same city having a combined effect? For example I can neutralize the governor or reduce the loyalty in the same city over and over again, and it makes no difference if I do it 1 time or 10 times. This doesn't really make sense.

    Surely over time the more times I reduce loyalty, the lower the loyalty should be, and the more open to flipping that city should end up?

    Same with governor. Surely if a governor is neutralized 5 times the citizens are going to have less respect for him, which will lower their effectiveness?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2020
  12. konokono

    konokono Chieftain

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    I think it would be pretty cool to be able to do false flag operations as a Spy. More options to manipulate other civs relations with each other would be fun!
     
    Kmart_Elvis likes this.
  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    cannot have multiple actions of the same type in the same city.
     
  14. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer Prince

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    This drives me absolutely bonkers. I don't know why it is so hard to program partisans to attack the targeted territory.

    On the receiving end, it's even more miserable. I very seldom build neighborhoods because I know no matter what, I'm going to be stuck wasting my spies on counter missions to protect them. Super annoying.
     
  15. crouchy

    crouchy Chieftain

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    I don't mean concurrently, but sequentially.

    I can cause unrest over and over again in the same city.
     
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    8 turns to cause unrest, reduced to 6 with a card and 4 with a promotion. Each unrest is what... -20?
    A normal full loyal city is +20 per turn so you have to generate a situation where it is less than +4... a 1 off -20, Amani -2 per turn is probably better but they can of course join causes, it’s just a lot of investment. Killing the governor is -40, a better option but a nice trio well timed. Not saying you cannot or it’s not fun, just...
     
  17. crouchy

    crouchy Chieftain

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    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't that kind of what I am saying? The unrest / governor spy missions aren't useful enough, they don't do enough.

    Unrest is -20 I think, but they don't stack. You cannot go any lower than -20.
     
  18. Tarry

    Tarry Chieftain

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    I like the spy game except for recruit partizan's. I simply don't build neighbourhoods in my cities any more as it's much too annoying to deal with.
     
  19. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Well things would need tweaking if one changed promotions to be at will. I specifically want promotion trees, i.e. some of them only can be chosen at higher levels.
     
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  20. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I'd like a Holy Site Mission called: Desecration. Basically just pillaging a Holy Site to possible stop the spam of missionaries and apostles.

    Also I think Great Work Heist needs to be expanded for Holy Sites and Palaces.
     
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