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How do people get sub T300 science victories?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by CivAddict2013, May 25, 2016.

  1. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Perfect stats perfect scenarios and all that.

    I keep saying this but you can cook any number of situations in Civ5 that will make an immortal game feel like Prince.

    Having that one agressive Civ closeby and no one else to absorb their anger is always a possibility and could make an Emperor game feel particularly hard if a certian mix of Civs screws with your plans.

    Winning by X turns is always an interesting exercise in optimization, but if you play with random Civs on non cooked starts, it's always aspirational. It's just as fun to ovecome the challenges presented by the map/CivMix
     
  2. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    It just depends on what is your goal.

    This is exactly like speed gaming.

    If you want to beat a record (your own or someone else's) you HAVE TO take risks. Exactly how a speedgamer do these wacky things to run through a level faster.

    On the other hand if you simply want to win a game, play it a bit safer and if you have a tough neighbours at least get a minimum of units. having a spotter to see potential armies is also good to allow you to react.
     
  3. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Q: Did you run all your trade routes to your own cities to give them food, ASAP, and then constantly? If you get your first caravan up and running ca. T50, from your 2nd city to your cap, and then every new trade routes as soon as it's available, you should have a size 40-50 capital by T180, and be homing in on Labs, not Schools.

    Not really. I've never watched an SV video, but I understand the basics. I can't get the fastest possible times, because the last 30 turns are always too slow for me, but I can sure as hell get to Sci Theory before T180.

    Build Scouts. Build Settlers and buy Archers or use Scouts to escort them. New cities build Granary then Libraries. Rush buy them if necessary. Use Carl Jung's advice about keeping the AI friendly. If you have Oda, Khan, Attila etc. nearby, prepare to abandon an optimal fast SV in favour of building CBs and Pikes for defence, as they might attack you anyway.

    Work all internal trade routes for food. Get a religion and store up faith for later. If you're prioritising growth and using the right tech path and getting science buildings up and running ASAP, then T150 Sci Theory is definitely possible.
     
  4. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Many players will rush buy needed universities with gold as soon as they hit Education (and start working those GS slots immediately), then time Oxford to be completed as soon as they finish Compass, allowing them to bulb Astronomy as their free tech and enter the Renaissance Era much more quickly and allowing them to open Rationalism as their next policy choice. Rush buy an observatory and you are off to the races. Of course, this requires that you husband your gold stack to rush buy needed universities (instead of frittering it away on other buildings or units), but gold is much more plentiful as you go up in difficulty levels.

    In your example, that approach would save 22 turns, minus the time to build Oxford, and get you generating an additional 50% science in your observatory city, plus the 10% Rationalism bonus, all the more quickly.
     
  5. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Is there a consensus on whether any of the Oxford tech targets are strictly better? For example (and I'm asking, since I don't know or have a fixed opinion) is it better to take Radio, since it's more beakers than Astronomy? (and has perhaps a more seismic effect by allowing two free policies next turn)
     
  6. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    I don't think there is a right or wrong on that, but Radio is a popular choice (for the reasons you state), as are Satellites (to unlock the ability to build Hubble).
     
  7. poxpower

    poxpower Prince

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    I never even thought about using it for astronomy... It would require having gold to buy universities in all your cities right away which in my experience is very rare. But probably if you can manage to do that, and then buy an observatory in your capital, you're pretty set.

    I don't think it'd get much better than that. Otherwise getting Radio is pretty good, but if your game is going well you'll get the two free policies anyway as early adopter so I don't know. Getting plastics might be just as good / better.
     
  8. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I also really like using Oxford for Indu. I save a Prophet or a General and take a gamble on whether there will be coal available, then plant the GP instantly and rushbuy 3 factories instead of going for a fast ST and rushbuying all my public schools. It gives you Ideology roughly 20 turns earlier than the Radio variant, which probably isn't all that beneficial for 4 city trad, but works wonders for 5-6 city trad. It really helps bridge the renaissance happiness gap and allows your cities to grow extremely fast, esp with the Freedom tenet for specialists. you can work those unis and public schools right away without sacrificing much growth because of the 0.5f per specialist.

    another thing I occasionally do is use oxford for plastics. in that case I will time oxford with a natural GS spawn, then bulb the GS the same turn for replacable parts, pick plastics as my free tech, purchase labs in every city and engineer SoL. this I usually do if I feel like I'm behind in turns, but my empire will have huge lategame bulbs, so also more of a wide SV strategy. when you know you'll be needing 1 or 2 GS less in the lategame because you managed to settle 5 or 6 very good cities this can be very effective in shaving off turns.

    knowing exactly when to produce nothing but research/stop growing your cities/convert all improvements to TP I think is one of the most crucial things about getting that post-plastics time down to a minimum. i'm not very good at it so take those "strategies" of mine with a grain of salt.
     
  9. RincewindOtti

    RincewindOtti Chieftain

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    It probably depends on many things - as always ;)

    I tend to use Oxford on astronomy when playing OCC. With more cities I usually go for radio. When rushing to info era for a DV I use it on whatever fits on that last ditch effort to make it in time.
     
  10. Nick31

    Nick31 Prince

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    I think Plastics is the default, given that if since you'll have a saved GS, you can bulb/Oxford and get basically 15-17 turns of science and rush-buy some Labs. For "fast" Science victories, that's pretty basic good play.

    Industrialization into Order is certainly a viable play, for the obvious reasons of ideology gain. I used to do a lot of Oxford into Radio, but that's mostly a Freedom strat. The more you go Order, the more you want Industrialization asap.

    Personally, I'd never wait so long as Satellites for Oxford, as by then you'll have more options (rationalism finisher, GS, et al.), whereas in the earlier phase that faster ideology or faster Labs really propel you forward.
     
  11. Ribannah

    Ribannah Fighter Druid

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    It depends on the number of cities. If you have only few, the Great Scientist points are important and you want to build it early. If your empire is large, Satellites is a sound choice as it will otherwise cost more than one Great Scientist to bulb.
     

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