How do the Germans feel about unification now?

amadeus

rotatedeus
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I was reading that in the 1970’s and ‘80s that there was a kind of collective consciousness in West Germany that there were and forever would be two Germanys, even if the wall came down.

It’s been 34 years since reunification. Is there still a noticeable split? Not just economically, but in cultural aspects as well? Today’s young professionals would be of the age now where they were born in and grew up in and only knew one Germany—even if they did not experience it, is there still a feeling of it instilled from their elders?
 
I think there would be. Look how many generations the Holocaust affected, or just WWII in general. Some years ago I was commenting on an American travel video on YT, mentioned I was Canadian, and suddenly some guy posted a most sincere thank you to me just because I'm Canadian and he wanted to express his gratitude that in WWII a Canadian soldier saved his mother and grandmother, somewhere in Holland (I think that's where he said it happened).

Older generations pass their stories down to the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, along with a lifetime of attitudes and habits that some of the younger generation absorb and either accept or don't accept. Reunification would have produced some wonderful successes, and some horrific psychological issues and abuses if people couldn't cope with the new normal.
 
I was reading that in the 1970’s and ‘80s that there was a kind of collective consciousness in West Germany that there were and forever would be two Germanys, even if the wall came down.

It’s been 34 years since reunification. Is there still a noticeable split? Not just economically, but in cultural aspects as well? Today’s young professionals would be of the age now where they were born in and grew up in and only knew one Germany—even if they did not experience it, is there still a feeling of it instilled from their elders?
The recent successes of the AfD should answer the question about continued differences in the affirmative.

The DDR left a lasting legacy not of Marxist-Leninist Socialism, but a much more nebulous, but like that also more insidious, general sentiments of anti-westernism and illiberalism, which works well with current populist politics.

The DDR was officially, publicly and explicitly Socialist, anti-Fascist etc. So all those things – Socialism and anti-Fascism etc. – became tainted by the increasing lack of political legitimacy of the DDR state in the eyes of its own citizens. They were part of the official ideology – the official ideology clashing with experienced reality was a huge minus for the DDR.
But remaining as potentially popular ideas was still anti-westernism and illiberalism, which do not have to be connected to Socialism or anti-Fascism and the like.
 
From what I hear there is still a serious difference, as evidenced by income, property ownership and size of inheritance for example..


Yet, the hard economic facts are undeniable. According to 2021 figures, east Germans still have 11% less disposable income than their western compatriots, and they inherit only about half as much wealth. Impose almost any economic indicator on to a map, and the old east-west divide reappears.
 
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I was reading that in the 1970’s and ‘80s that there was a kind of collective consciousness in West Germany that there were and forever would be two Germanys, even if the wall came down.

It’s been 34 years since reunification. Is there still a noticeable split? Not just economically, but in cultural aspects as well? Today’s young professionals would be of the age now where they were born in and grew up in and only knew one Germany—even if they did not experience it, is there still a feeling of it instilled from their elders?

There are definitely cultural differences. Part of that is just normal regional differences in culture and language, like there also is between north and south Germans. But there is more.

There was a huge brain drain in East Germany towards West Germany after reunification. Especially young people moved west in search of better opportunities. And most of those integrated into the culture of their new home, married West Germans and are raising families without much influence of their far away elders. And this is still happening to some degree (as it is in other rural areas): The ambitious people move away, because of lacking opportunities, which means that the people left behind have even less opportunities. Except for people from East Berlin (which is somewhat special), I don't actually know any young professionals from East Germany well enough to have an idea how they feel.

When it comes to older people, the cultural gap is quite obvious though, especially when it comes to politics. West Germans have been and are (maybe excessively) taught about the crimes of the DDR, but I have met East Germans who insist it was not all that bad, which then sounds like justifying the crimes to West German ears. And the turn of East Germans to right-wing, left-wing and trying-to-be-at-the-open-end-of-the-horseshoe parties is not making the discourse any easier. It is hard to tell from the outside of course, but I feel like there is some resentment towards West Germany for taking over and making it responsible for collapsing the economy. And there is also sometimes a condescending attitude of West Germans towards East Germans, making East Germans a minority that needs to be accepted but does not have too much to say.
 
It was never a reunification to begin with. It was an annexation of the DDR by the Bundesrepublik where eastern Germans received a subordinate treatment from day 1.

At first there was optimism, specially among western Germans, but once the initial optimism subsided, the Eastern revenge began. The Ostalgie phenomenon that happened when the movie Goodbye Lenin was released 21 years ago (that's just 13 years after the reunification) was act 1 of this larger Eastern revenge.

IMHO this was inevitable. German society is a classist society that likes classifying people in rigid categories, which is often confused with racism but is not. The average German has a rigid classification of people but is not a racist.

This, however, turns them into a collective comprised of mostly good people who collectively end up acting like maladaptative pricks unable to read the room and appreciate the changes in the world surrounding. Otto von Bismarck already warned the Kaiser about this but to no avail. Germany ended up in the disasters of 1914 and later 1939 precisely because of this and history will repeat itself (hopefully in a less bloody manner next time) if they don't change this aspect of their culture.

Now you have all west Germans wondering why they are not the superpower they were meant to be and instead they have to watch how the Visegrad countries (which they hypocritically despise) give them a couple of lessons in geopolitical and geostrategic matters while China takes their place as the next superpower and the Americans keep treating them like vassals while the differences (and, to a certain, conflict) with Eastern Germans do nothing but grow. Things will keep ending up like this way unless Germans change this idiotic aspect of their culture.
 
Now you have all west Germans wondering why they are not the superpower they were meant to be and instead they have to watch how the Visegrad countries (which they hypocritically despise) give them a couple of lessons in geopolitical and geostrategic matters while China takes their place as the next superpower and the Americans keep treating them like vassals while the differences (and, to a certain, conflict) with Eastern Germans do nothing but grow. Things will keep ending up like this way unless Germans change this idiotic aspect of their culture.
Sorry but what a bunch of nonsense.
 
From what I hear there is still a serious difference, as evidenced by income, property ownership and size of inheritance for example.
11% though is less than what I would have suspected considering the ratio was probably closer to 2:1 in 1990.

The recent successes of the AfD should answer the question about continued differences in the affirmative.
This wasn’t meant to be explicitly about election results, but I suppose the question is then raised: what are the issues dividing the former West and East beyond the economic?
It was never a reunification to begin with.
I suppose technically yes, but I’m not seeing the relevance consequent with forming a new government that wouldn’t be continuous with the old West German one.
 
11 % income disparity is in itself not unusual no, you can find such regional differences inside Belgium for example, and presumably most other countries, usually there is some logical explanation,

here it are the provinces around the major cities (Brussel/Gent/Antwerpen) that have higher income/prices, while the outlying regions are typically "cheaper".

But size of inheritance for example, or % of home ownership should normally not follow the same pattern.

Impose almost any economic indicator on to a map, and the old east-west divide reappears.
 
Sorry but what a bunch of nonsense.

My experience with Germans tells me that the underlying issue with many of the issues that Germany has faced in the past and is facing today is the lack of awareness of their own classism. Germans in this aspect are the opposite to the English. The English like pretending that they are deeply classist when, in fact, for the most part are pretty egalitarian when it comes to their set of values despite the overall pretense of classism of their society. Modern Germans on the other hand think that they are deeply egalitarian but as soon as you scratch the surface you can clearly see that a deeply rooted sense of rigid classism that eventually affects them in every single aspect of their collective lives as a nation. That is why I think their rigid classism is behind a resurfacing Ease-West divide.
 
It was never a reunification to begin with. It was an annexation of the DDR by the Bundesrepublik where eastern Germans received a subordinate treatment from day 1.

At first there was optimism, specially among western Germans, but once the initial optimism subsided, the Eastern revenge began. The Ostalgie phenomenon that happened when the movie Goodbye Lenin was released 21 years ago (that's just 13 years after the reunification) was act 1 of this larger Eastern revenge.

IMHO this was inevitable. German society is a classist society that likes classifying people in rigid categories, which is often confused with racism but is not. The average German has a rigid classification of people but is not a racist.

This, however, turns them into a collective comprised of mostly good people who collectively end up acting like maladaptative pricks unable to read the room and appreciate the changes in the world surrounding. Otto von Bismarck already warned the Kaiser about this but to no avail. Germany ended up in the disasters of 1914 and later 1939 precisely because of this and history will repeat itself (hopefully in a less bloody manner next time) if they don't change this aspect of their culture.

Now you have all west Germans wondering why they are not the superpower they were meant to be and instead they have to watch how the Visegrad countries (which they hypocritically despise) give them a couple of lessons in geopolitical and geostrategic matters while China takes their place as the next superpower and the Americans keep treating them like vassals while the differences (and, to a certain, conflict) with Eastern Germans do nothing but grow. Things will keep ending up like this way unless Germans change this idiotic aspect of their culture.
What divides existed before the actual division of East and West Germany, that Bismark was so concerned about?
Or do you mean Prussians versus everybody else?
 
It’s been 34 years since reunification. Is there still a noticeable split? Not just economically, but in cultural aspects as well? Today’s young professionals would be of the age now where they were born in and grew up in and only knew one Germany—even if they did not experience it, is there still a feeling of it instilled from their elders?

There is an entire genre of "maps on which East Germany is discernibly visible"

Here's a curated selection of a few (from 2020):

 
To me as an American the East/West divide in a unified Germany feels awfully eerie when I compare it to the North/South divide in the US. “The Line” is very visible on many maps for both countries.
 
IMHO the separation between East and West is more about rural and urban areas. Especially in the larger East German cities like Dresden, Leipzig, Potsdam, Halle or Erfurt the conditions are quite similar to the urban areas in the west. There might be a difference regarding the medium sized cities. But areas in the west like Saarland are also not that well off.
Especially the rural areas suffered from the younger generation moving away for the last 30 years.
There were some discussion if Germany should now get a new common constitution where all German interests are included as the current Grundgesetz originated in the west. In my opinion Grundgesetz works fine and the real and perceived problems are in other areas.
Most people perceive chances for the future pessimistic, refugees as as threat and the political parties as incapable of solving problems.
Currently the government is trying to transform the economy to a hydrogen based economy without really considering where to get it - it's totally bonkers.
 
Most people perceive chances for the future pessimistic, refugees as as threat and the political parties as incapable of solving problems.
I dunno about pessimistic..living in Germany means an overall high safety standard (def. compared to countries with much bigger problems like dictators or high gun violence).
Maybe we sometimes forget that we have it good (normal i guess).

Religious fanatics, potential terrorists etc. are a threat everywhere, not specific to Germany imo.
And yup..fate in politics is low overall, but when i see Trump running for president again it's not that bad compared ;)
 
What divides existed before the actual division of East and West Germany, that Bismark was so concerned about?
Or do you mean Prussians versus everybody else?
Bismarck's remark in his last meeting with the Kaiser did not make any mention to any inner division. Bismarck's remark made reference to the incapability of the German leadership in particular (and to a certain extent, the whole German people) to adapt to changing circumstances.

My experience as a foreigner (not an immigrant, as I'm in my homeland) that has dealt many times with Germans in their language and in their own terms tells me that the root cause is an implicit acceptance of rigid ways of interacting with others based on perceived social class to the point that they bring that to the international terrain, often failing to realize the changes in the world surrounding them.

This also has lead to an ever increasing East-West divide in the political and economic terrains. You'd think that after 34 years since the reunification these differences would tend to vanish but as we're seeing in the last elections, these differences are doing nothing but increase. The period of maximum convergence between East and West Germany was, in fact, about 10 years after the fall of the wall because West Germany had successfully imposed their model of society to the East and the East had had not time to react yet. But now that time has passed, the East is not only striking back but also winning and managing to change the entire political landscape in the country. And the deep-rooted reason because of this is, again, German implicit and highly rigid classism that lead West Germans to treat East Germans like second-class Germans to the point that East Germans have had enough of Western arrogance and decided to bite back.
 
Split it off!

D4FA45E4-6867-4BBC-9C8B-6F3EA6598629.jpeg


(not my design but it is neat)
 
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