How Do You Deal With Non-Stop War??

[Buccaneer]

One should never be too chicken. I even had others here tell me not to be too aggressive (in taking down the Mongols capital) but I went ahead and did it anyway. You will find that, even on Immortal, you would have more military success than you think you should, as long as you follow the basic wargaming rules of units placement, zone of control, leadership influence (great general) and cycling units from the front lines.

 

[docbud]

My problem is that I play too defensively. And when I play offensively and totally kick butt, I'm amazed at how easy it was. But I am always so hesitant.

I'm on the move now, but I get nervous about losing a unit or two (which I should not worry about).

 

[docbud]

My problem is that I play too defensively. And when I play offensively and totally kick butt, I'm amazed at how easy it was. But I am always so hesitant.

I'm on the move now, but I get nervous about losing a unit or two (which I should not worry about).

To add: Holy Warriors is GREAT.

 

[Maxym]

Here’s a screenshot of turn 8
Thanks

And here is a first apparent mistake, I see you scouting With initial warrior, good. But you send him to the east along coast. At the point you already know it's a coast, get him deep into the fog to where your likely opponents are, to get their goody huts, save ur coastline for later.

I think I saw it mentioned but will reiterate, u have Alex as ur neighbor and you know it in few turns, don't even build a library, just a monument and granny if there is wheat and deer otherwise just archers, and yes settle towards Alex, not doing that is what got you in trouble last time. Remember u are going to win the wars from now on.

 

[docbud]

^^But I did find a city state., Turns later I ran into Alex who was in the fog.

Anyway--I took a few cities--Carinth, Argos, and good old Athens. Mission accomplished.

Atilla showed up and he's a powerhouse. I said screw it and will let this game die.

He's a different continent, but I just don't feel like dealing with him.

I will take the advice of Novalia and try a few games of 100 turns or so of warfare.

Again--You guys are great and I do appreciate your help and insight.

But I must admit--I will never play like you all can. I'm a fifty-year-old guy playing for fun (but wanting to win). I still can't wrap my head around folks winning in 200 turns with nukes...

 

[Buccaneer]

Age shouldn't matter, doc. I'm over 50 but I have been playing Civ and wargames since the 1990s.

 

[docbud]

@buccaneer: Civ V is the first I've played. Found it on the Mac App Store and loved it. I've played games for years as well, but not too many games like this.

I can't wrap my head around how folks can be scoring thousands of points per turn for science or culture and have nukes by the year 1600 or 1700.

And that can be part of my problem--I'm trying to do that, but get frustrated when I can't get that kind of science or culture per turn.

Like I said--I play for fun, but I do want to win. But I'm not trying to do it in so many turns.

Thanks for replying again you old fart!

 

[Maxym]

^^But I did find a city state., Turns later I ran into Alex who was in fog.
Atilla showed up and he's a powerhouse. I said screw it and will let this game die.

He's a different continent, but I just don't feel like dealing with him.

Yes but others who played t8 save found multiple techs, culture, gold. It pays off to send scouts in prime directions. On maps with few nearby AI pay attention from here their scouts are coming from and adjust ur path to go where there is unexplored land.

But I must admit--I will never play like you all can. I'm a fifty-year-old guy playing for fun (but wanting to win). I still can't wrap my head around folks winning in 200 turns with nukes...

well if you get better at early starts you will have to deal with ppl like Attilla, might as well try now, you got a lot of ppl cheering you on.

You don't have to kill him, just build UN and get CS votes or build a spaceship.

And you don't have to win in 200 turns with nukes, just win for now. Try some GOTM in game of the month forum to improve, but be prepared to see incredibly fast finish times.

 

[Greslin]

My problem is that I play too defensively. And when I play offensively and totally kick butt, I'm amazed at how easy it was. But I am always so hesitant.

Just a thought that often works for me.. I find there's a definite advantage in playing defensively. Not "avoid war at all costs" defensive, but "I won't start it, but I'll finish it" defensive. Lure a smartass neighbor civ into DOWing you, let them take the diplo penalty, and then beat the holy bejeesus out of them. No one then blames you for winning a war you didn't start, even if you did end up conquering half the enemy's empire in the process.

Don't blame me, I'm just a peaceloving victim here. With a crossbow army you didn't know I had.

Works particularly well if you have a nice bank account and a military that's just a notch below in progress than it could be - composite bowmen, for example, when you could easily upgrade them all to crossbows in a single turn. Enemy thinks you're weaker than you are, DOWs, and then BOOM UPGRADE! and suddenly it's Hitler blitzing Poland. Deny peace until you have what you want. It's a particularly effective and nasty tactic with a GW in place and some nice buffer territory around cities.. they get past the wall, get slogged into that ugly movement penalty and quickly get overwhelmed by tech superiority.

These days I rarely fully upgrade my units unless it's time to fight or I really, really need to intimidate a neighbor into backing off my borders. Instead I keep an eye on my neighbors and try to stay at their tech level until I need to bring out big guns. Done right, it's also a good way to avoid spending lots of gold on military power that I'm not using.

 

[Buccaneer]

Yeah, countattacking is typically the most effective strategy - always have been in Civ. The reason is that, if you have good defensive units and placements (range units on hills, behind rivers, garrisoned and such, including Oligarchy), you can beat back a large offensive AI force. Once you killed most of their offensive units and you have gained several promotions, now is the time to counterattack and typically you will face little opposition - unless it's Greece, but that's usually another story. The key is to not to wait and don't let your defensive units get killed (or give them heal-up promotions).

 

[Novalia]

yeah promotions are key.. if you play smart and are in a defensive position for whatever reason he will keep buying/building NEW troops to fill the gap you've created in his army.. and you.. well you are building a veteran force of killers.. killing his newbies faster and faster with each rush... and if they instant heal on you for 50.. think to yourself suck it.. you just lost a promotion.

in my game alex built 2 settlers and 3 workers and 1 hoplite.. i scouted him and realized how weak he was.. that's what they do to you.. scout you out.. and if you have a crap military and are building wonders then the AI is like "well this should be easy.. lets take it".. i find once you start a game with a decent military everything is easy.. now i have 4 cities a pile of gold i didnt have to burn on settlers.. a whole continent to myself.. and a religion that will kick the ass out of any happiness problems =)

all those fast times you see should be ignored.. those guys micro manage the crap out of every single turn.. check demographics, resources, food tiles, production tiles... thre best of might even have a calculator out to make sure they time their policies perfectly.. etc etc..

they are fun to watch tho.. each time i watch a "lets play" vid i pick up one tiny little thing that makes it into my next game.

 

[Browd]

You don't have to kill him, just build UN and get CS votes or build a spaceship.

You set this game up with only domination VC enabled. You're best off leaving all VCs enabled. It allows you to react to the map.

And you don't have to win in 200 turns with nukes, just win for now. Try some GOTM in game of the month forum to improve, but be prepared to see incredibly fast finish times.

GOTMs are great advice. Not only are the games at varying difficulty levels, but the commentary/war stories posted in the After Action threads allow you to compare other players' strategies with your own. Great learning experience.

 

[Txurce]

Practicing at being aggressive is great advice. You can also practice quick, extremely effective expansion that suits your turtling, wonder-building tendencies with Tabarnak's 4-city Tradition opening. Once you get the hang of that, I'm sure Pilgrim will agree that in most cases you can easily get the GL and just about any Wonder you want on prince level.

In terms of the AI scouting you, I think one way they do it is by placing an embassy in your capital. If I'm trying to get by without many units early on (don't try this yet) I won't sell an embassy to nearby aggressive civs, tempting as that 25g is early in the game.

 

[Unresolved]

Different difficulty level, but I had major problems with war on Immortal until I tried a few games of this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=488078. After I tried early domination, Immortal warfare became a joke, no matter what era I fought in.

 

[The Pilgrim]

all those fast times you see should be ignored.. those guys micro manage the crap out of every single turn.. check demographics, resources, food tiles, production tiles... thre best of might even have a calculator out to make sure they time their policies perfectly.. etc etc..

they are fun to watch tho.. each time i watch a "lets play" vid i pick up one tiny little thing that makes it into my next game.

Wow... Ignoring what good players do - this is an excellent advice for someone who's trying to improve.

GOTMs are great advice though. Not only are the games at varying difficulty levels, but the commentary/war stories posted in the After Action threads allow you to compare other players' strategies with your own. Great learning experience.

Understanding these commentary/war stories might not be easy. The inside slang and many details that are left unexplained due to their being obvious for more advanced players are not clear to novice.

 

[Novalia]

Seriously dude?
I meant ignore the fast times that seem so discouraging to him.
Stop being such a .

 

[docbud]

Thanks, gang.

@Novalia--I see what you are saying about the fast times that others are churning out. I think that has been my problem because I’m trying to rush to this and that, without completely understanding the game play.

@Browd--You’re right about leving all VCs enables. In that game, I thought I would try something different.

@Greslin--I like your ideas

@Maxym--I will definitely concentrate on my early starts. And I must admit, I hate it when Attilla shows up.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Seriously dude?
I meant ignore the fast times that seem so discouraging to him.
Stop being such a .

I'm not being anything. I believe you didn't mean it that way, however there is a fine line between encouraging and misleading. And implying that "micro manage the crap out of every single turn.. check demographics, resources, food tiles, production tiles... " can and should be ignored is much more the former than the latter. Sure it will encourage for a short moment, but in the next game where docbud will continue ignoring all this stuff he'll end up exactly at the same spot. I doubt that will be very encouraging.

Keeping an eye on demographics, trading resources, manually control the workers, scouts, citizens and great people etc are not the prerogative of those who plays on higher difficulties or achieve a very fast finish dates. These are vitals and a huge part of understanding of the game, which even docbud himself admits, he lacks.

And yes, I do realize (ok, assume) that what you really meant was hammer trick, multiple GP pop and other advanced techniques. But that's not what person that is struggling on prince and have no previous Civ experience reads.


And docbud, I wholeheartedly recommend (again) watching Let's Play videos linked in your previous thread. I guarantee you it'll be eye opening. In addition to educational, entertaining and inspiring.

 

[docbud]

^^Thanks, The Pilgrim. I have been watching MadDjinn and some of his videos.

I am currently watching the Babylon one, and he had hardly any troops. Cities totally undefended. And he's playing Deity. I have four or five CBs playing Prince and I'm DOWd all the time because my army is weak. Yet he has practically zero army in his cities, and everyone leaves him alone (except the Huns), which he took out with only a few bowmen and a pike (plus city bombardment).

Amazing.

 

[Elz Majesto]

And yes, I do realize (ok, assume) that what you really meant was hammer trick, multiple GP pop and other advanced techniques. But that's not what person that is struggling on prince and have no previous Civ experience reads.


.

When this happened in my game (got an engineer and scientist) I was convinced it was a glitch! Thanks for clearing it up, now to go spelunking diving in the forum for some articles on double, maybe even triple GP birth.