How do you defeat Trump?

[Kaitzilla]

How about offer everyone who votes a $10 gift card to Dairy Queen?

Bloomberg can afford it, and it isn't vote buying (electoral treating) since it isn't favoring any specific party or political group.
Even the person voting for Mickey Mouse (I) would get one.

It also might sneakily drive voter turnout in liberal places more than conservative places by a couple percent, but who can argue with free ice cream?
https://www.cheatsheet.com/health-f...s-support-liberal-or-conservative-views.html/

 

[Berzerker]

Nobody in the party fits that description. I think Al Gore would actually make the best dark horse candidate, but he’s not going to run now.

Klobuchar aint what I'd call charismatic but she would be tough in the rust belt. Her main weakness from what I gather is her penchant for throwing things during tantrums. Other than that I think she does well even with Repubs in her own state.

There is no middle. Hasn't been for a long time. There are people who may get dragged or pushed across the line. Contending for those people isn't done by "one side plays this way and the other side plays a different way." If you want to kill a sewer rat you can't sit on an upper class balcony looking at pictures.

The people crossing the line are the middle and they wont be won by jumping into Trump's pigpen.

 

[Kyriakos]

1. Choose a centrist/corporatist candidate
2. Support them when Bernie wins a plurality
3. ...
4. Prepare for 2024

 

[Berzerker]

I dont know, I'm having 2nd thoughts. Trump will hang 'the crew' or whatever they're called around Bernie's neck. Hillary should have won in 2016 and Klobuchar doesn't have her baggage. I think using Hillary to indict the center is a mistake, she was bad for other reasons. Crooked warmongers dont define the center. OTOH Gore and Kerry lost. But Bush was closer to the center than Trump.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The people crossing the line are the middle and they wont be won by jumping into Trump's pigpen.

If they could be won over by the "I'm the adult in the room who will conduct myself with dignity appropriate to the office and present a better program of policies" bit they would already be on the other side of the line. Unless someone goes into the mud after them they are staying right where they are.

 

[Zardnaar]

The right has spent decades refining their "messaging" to find what works and spread it.



The Republicans (may have?) have gotten good enough at minority rule that "the MAGA crowd alone" very well could reelect him...

Well when 1 in 3 don't vote you only need just under half of those who do to win.

So 30% or so of the electorate. MAGA conveniently is around that number.

 

[Ajidica]

He can and would make stuff up. Being capable of calling him out on that (rather than avoiding that to avoid being called out oneself) would be a useful piece of an argument for why someone is better.

His supporters don't care if he lies, and it is almost impossible for someone to 'fact check' during a debate. Donald Trump is the walking embodiment of the Gish gallop and in the amount of time it takes to address one lie he has vomited forth dozens more. That is, of course, assuming the other candidate know the actual facts on any given topic and can quickly marshal them into a coherent and compelling response.

I've run into this situation plenty here on CFC, such as on Ukraine. A person makes a false claim, I counter it, but in my counter-argument I get a small part wrong -such as mixing up timelines- and they leap on it as proof my entire argument is false and theirs is true because clearly the 'facts aren't on my side'.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

His supporters don't care if he lies, and it is almost impossible for someone to 'fact check' during a debate. Donald Trump is the walking embodiment of the Gish gallop and in the amount of time it takes to address one lie he has vomited forth dozens more. That is, of course, assuming the other candidate know the actual facts on any given topic and can quickly marshal them into a coherent and compelling response.

I've run into this situation plenty here on CFC, such as on Ukraine. A person makes a false claim, I counter it, but in my counter-argument I get a small part wrong -such as mixing up timelines- and they leap on it as proof my entire argument is false and theirs is true because clearly the 'facts aren't on my side'.

This is why the counter can't be calm cool fact spewing. "That's a bald faced lie just like almost everything you have said in your entire life." Period. No "proving it," no "point by point dissertations," just call it what it is and wait for him. Make him deal with being called a liar immediately.

 

[Berzerker]

If they could be won over by the "I'm the adult in the room who will conduct myself with dignity appropriate to the office and present a better program of policies" bit they would already be on the other side of the line. Unless someone goes into the mud after them they are staying right where they are.

She wasn't the dignified adult in the room, she was already in the mud. The middle wont be won over by another pig... Dont nominate a liar if the strategy is calling Trump a liar.

Hillary called Trump Putin's puppet, he responded by calling her Putin's puppet. People had reason to believe both were puppets. Trump's weaknesses were nullified by her weaknesses.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

She wasn't the dignified adult in the room, she was already in the mud. The middle wont be won over by another pig... Dont nominate a liar if the strategy is calling Trump a liar.

Hillary called Trump Putin's puppet, he responded by calling her Putin's puppet. People had reason to believe both were puppets. Trump's weaknesses were nullified by her weaknesses.

Yeah man, heard it all before. To a truly perceptive individual like yourself Democrats and Republicans are all the same. Got the tee-shirt. But someone with such "perception" sort of forfeits the right to have their opinions on political strategy respected.

 

[onejayhawk]

The GOP, plus Fox News, and the whole profusion of right-wing think tanks and policy outfits and PR consultants and on and on...all combined it is a highly refined machine for polluting the discourse with right-wing lies in ways that produce exactly this kind of outcome. The right almost always controls the terms on which the issue is discussed.

If I didn't know better, I would say you wanted a monopoly on what is on the news. It must be hard having other viewpoints given airtime and clouding the purity of your vision.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If I didn't know better, I would say you wanted a monopoly on what is on the news. It must be hard having other viewpoints given airtime and clouding the purity of your vision.

J

If by "other viewpoints" you mean "well known bald faced lies repeated endlessly" then, yeah, it makes me want to either puke or rip someone's head off their neck. Stuff that has already been proven to be abjectly false should not be aired by Faux News...or posted by you...and yet here we are.

 

[EnglishEdward]

His supporters don't care if he lies, and it is almost impossible for someone to 'fact check' during a debate. Donald Trump is the walking embodiment of the Gish gallop and in the amount of time it takes to address one lie he has vomited forth dozens more. That is, of course, assuming the other candidate know the actual facts on any given topic and can quickly marshal them into a coherent and compelling response.

Quite so. Best not to debate on facts, and epecially not on statistics.

Let the Donald wafflke his nonsense, and then give him a:

"There he goes again"

and outline what you and your team are standing for.

 

[Berzerker]

Yeah man, heard it all before. To a truly perceptive individual like yourself Democrats and Republicans are all the same. Got the tee-shirt. But someone with such "perception" sort of forfeits the right to have their opinions on political strategy respected.

While Hillary and Donald have a lot in common, I wouldn't say they're the same. He didn't send a bunch of lies to the FBI to spy on her. You wanted someone to be nasty, you got her. Joe McCarthy's spirit was alive and well running her campaign, they accused people of being Russian assets/traitors and sent fabricated 'evidence' of it to the FBI to spy on them. Lets ask Carter Page if he feels like she ran a dignified campaign.

How are you gonna win the middle against a morally bankrupt person by nominating a morally bankrupt person? My strategy is to nominate a centrist who isn't nasty and you think Hillary's a rebuttal? The Dems actually found somebody more loathesome than Trump, thankfully the only person in the primaries anything like her is Biden and he's falling out of favor for now.

I see Bloomberg is being red baited for his ties to China now. Better nominate Klobuchar, her greatest sin is throwing things when she's mad.

 

[mitsho]

Explaining the truth behind Trumps lies is absolutely necessary, but it‘s not your place as the opposing candidate to do so. Have your staff be on the TV show, have your vice president talk about it. Just say „that‘s another lie“ and present your own idea. Sometimes you will not even have to point out the lie. If he talks about how good the economy is, you promise the Soy farmers in Iowa a help from being attacked by China. If he says that he has done a lot for women, you talk of the parental leave after birth you‘re proposing for everyone while your campaign uploads an ad that juxtaposes that sentence with what he really did.

You have to get dirty, but you have to have your own narrative as well.

Again, there are a lot of examples from Europe for how to deal with such populists, some better, some worse.

 

[Zardnaar]

Hopefully Trump defeats himself.

But the old saying "only in America".

 

[Estebonrober]

Quite so. Best not to debate on facts, and epecially not on statistics.

Let the Donald wafflke his nonsense, and then give him a:

"There he goes again"

and outline what you and your team are standing for.

It needs to be notably more dismissive the "there he goes again" while at the same time keeping it above board. You need to find phrases that really insult his intelligence and morals without being outright hateful. There are ways, you just also have to simultaneously avoid looking passive/aggressive.

 

[Fippy]

Maybe people like The Unforgiven politics, and Nothing Else Matters.
Democracy could Fade to Black, and other countries hear the Bell toll.

 

[Rashiminos]

Fred Beeman has a simple cure for this era of dirtbag politics. It's called cash money.

First, you pay cash money. Then, you pay cash money. After that, you pay some more cash money.

Then you have your VP chuck a comb at Trump's wig.

 

[amadeus]

Klobuchar aint what I'd call charismatic but she would be tough in the rust belt. Her main weakness from what I gather is her penchant for throwing things during tantrums. Other than that I think she does well even with Repubs in her own state.

Klobuchar has the advantage now of few people knowing what she actually stands for, and she lacks the charisma to go toe-to-toe with Trump. Biden was pretty sharp four years ago and I think he could have won then comparatively easily.