How do you do war in Civ3?

[Traex]

I'd like to know what other players do in war and also want advice/tips on how to do war in Civ3Complete.
Will doing a lot of save/load cycles give us advantage in unit battles? (Save first, then attack, if lose, load the save, if win, save again)
Do we normally focus on capturing/destroying cities in war?

 

[justanick]

Will doing a lot of save/load cycles give us advantage in unit battles? (Save first, then attack, if lose, load the save, if win, save again)

There is no need to play this kind of dirty.

Do we normally focus on capturing/destroying cities in war?

Well, committing genocide on regular basis will make you very much hated by AI. So there is this incentive to play relatively nice. But even without that it is usually better to keep them. Still, you do need a general plan.

A good approach to war is to never fight more than one enemy at once and only fight a nation you can eliminate reasonably soon. Avoid half-measures.

Choose one enemy to fight, declare war and then immediately buy all other nations into your war with some gtp. If they break their military alliance, then renew the military alliance immediately. If you feel the need to punish that meaningless betrayal, then this can wait till you and your allies have fulfilled their alliance by eliminating your enemy. Sharing the burdon of war in such a way increases the economic viability of war a lot. Avoid any war that will be unreasonably costly, but donnot be worried by few turns of high war weariness. If you started a war bring it to its completion soon by eliminating your enemy. Avoid half-measures.

 

[Traex]

There is no need to play this kind of dirty.

I think some ppl do this if it works... I've tried several times only and results aren't good, nearly all results are still same after loading the saves.

Well, committing genocide on regular basis will make you very much hated by AI. So there is this incentive to play relatively nice. But even without that it is usually better to keep them. Still, you do need a general plan.

A good approach to war is to never fight more than one enemy at once and only fight a nation you can eliminate reasonably soon. Avoid half-measures.

Choose one enemy to fight, declare war and then immediately buy all other nations into your war with some gtp. If they break their military alliance, then renew the military alliance immediately. If you feel the need to punish that meaningless betrayal, then this can wait till you and your allies have fulfilled their alliance by eliminating your enemy. Sharing the burdon of war in such a way increases the economic viability of war a lot. Avoid any war that will be unreasonably costly, but donnot be worried by few turns of high war weariness. If you started a war bring it to its completion soon by eliminating your enemy. Avoid half-measures.

Normally how many cities per turn did/could you capture (to fully 'Conquest' them quickly)? Does it depend on game difficulty lvl?

 

[Arexander]

I think some ppl do this if it works... I've tried several times only and results aren't good, nearly all results are still same after loading the saves.

That's probably because you have the game setting "Preserve Random Seed" on. If you want to keep reloading the save to get a different result from doing the same action, you need to turn that setting off. You can still get a different result even with "Preserve Random Seed" on, you just need to do your actions in a different order, so for example, instead of attacking straight away, move a worker first, then attack.

 

[justanick]

I think some ppl do this if it works...

That would not surprise me. But efficient warfare does not necessitate such measures. And ultimately it is more fun without such cheating via reloading.

Normally how many cities per turn did/could you capture (to fully 'Conquest' them quickly)? Does it depend on game difficulty lvl?

There are relevant variables like map size. Difficulty level may matter surprisingly little if the AIs fight each other. As a rule of thumb a good war should last no more then 15 turns. There are exceptions, but usually is preferable to win the easy wars first.

A typical war may look like this: You produce about 200 shields per turn, which is 2.5 cavalry per turn. Once you have something between 20 and 80 cavalry, some of which are simply knights upgraded to cavalry, you declare war. You ensure to have significant positive gtp and buy all other AIs into that war. Now, for the first 2 to 5 turns of that war you make sure to stay within your territory. It is not yet time to fight yourself. Give those AIs a fair chance to wear each other down. Once your enemy is reasonably weak you can mop that enemy from the map. Losing some units is very much acceptable if this means to eliminate the enemy faster. Minimize the amount of turns between you taking your first city and the enemy losing its last city.

One thing to keep in mind: AI is set to defend its capital more than lesser cities. Given that, taking the capital may not be your primary goal. That may matter if you are short on units. But if you have say 60 cavalry you are not short on units and may not have to worry about such details.

 

[Traex]

There are relevant variables like map size. Difficulty level may matter surprisingly little if the AIs fight each other. As a rule of thumb a good war should last no more then 15 turns. There are exceptions, but usually is preferable to win the easy wars first.

A typical war may look like this: You produce about 200 shields per turn, which is 2.5 cavalry per turn. Once you have something between 20 and 80 cavalry, some of which are simply knights upgraded to cavalry, you declare war. You ensure to have significant positive gtp and buy all other AIs into that war. Now, for the first 2 to 5 turns of that war you make sure to stay within your territory. It is not yet time to fight yourself. Give those AIs a fair chance to wear each other down. Once your enemy is reasonably weak you can mop that enemy from the map. Losing some units is very much acceptable if this means to eliminate the enemy faster. Minimize the amount of turns between you taking your first city and the enemy losing its last city.

One thing to keep in mind: AI is set to defend its capital more than lesser cities. Given that, taking the capital may not be your primary goal. That may matter if you are short on units. But if you have say 60 cavalry you are not short on units and may not have to worry about such details.

My favorite is to grow until Modern armors then go warring... is that not good?

 

[justanick]

My favorite is to grow until Modern armors then go warring... is that not good?

Well, that delays your victory by a large margin, by probably more than 100 turns. More territory usually means faster research, so using cavalry for war will get you faster to modern armour or the UN or the spaceship.

 

[Traex]

Well, that delays your victory by a large margin, by probably more than 100 turns. More territory usually means faster research, so using cavalry for war will get you faster to modern armour or the UN or the spaceship.

A victory delay is no prob for me.
Normally my plays were grow and grow till Modern armors n only defending against any attacks/wars from others until then. I normally rushed to Democracy at about turn 150, n then the rest of techs normally only took 4 turns to learn each (and reached Modern armors around turn 280). I mostly only played Regent difficulty recently though; so with higher difficulty levels it's normally good to war using Cavalries? Higher difficulties are still quite tough for me.
And I mostly played Tiny maps with only 3 AI opponents.
What is the good number of turns to reach Democracy and Modern armors?

 

[r16]

ı have played the same scenario for basically a decade now , with few different games now and then . ı see no problem in playing full 600 turns of it . With a game lasting upto 3 or 4 months with 2 or 3 hours every night . Immense amounts of save and reload . Not only for battle , ı might have 40 or 50 saves so that ı can go back 100 or 200 or 400 turns if it turns out ı might have placed just a single city better . My settlers are autoproduced , have to take care about where ı settle . For good save and reload warfare you must keep the seed number option on . Have lots of artillery to redline the enemy . Easier to make your units elite which improves your combat success , and the number of armies you might have . If you don't like the flow , as in perhaps you are losing a lot of units , change the sequence as already suggested . Can't say if moving a worker would change but let us say you are attacking with swordsmen and losing . Use horsemen for once or a few turns . They are likely to be redlined and forced to stop the attack and the AI seems satisfied so that your swordsmen will have it easier .

 

[justanick]

What is the good number of turns to reach Democracy and Modern armors?

Democracy is usually not worth it, because anarchy is too costly. Republic is the only government you need.

Tiny map size + regent difficulty means that you can reach 4 turns per tech rather early and keep that pace up.

 

[Traex]

Democracy is usually not worth it, because anarchy is too costly. Republic is the only government you need.

Tiny map size + regent difficulty means that you can reach 4 turns per tech rather early and keep that pace up.

I never changed to Republic, I went straight to Democracy (didn't do Republic/Monarchy techs and only all required techs till Democracy in the Middle age).

 

[justanick]

I never changed to Republic, I went straight to Democracy (didn't do Republic/Monarchy techs and only all required techs till Democracy in the Middle age).

OK, that is a huge mistake. Leaving despotism ASAP is what you need to do. That is best done by researching Code of Law, then philosophy and taking republic as your bonus tech.

 

[Traex]

OK, that is a huge mistake. Leaving despotism ASAP is what you need to do. That is best done by researching Code of Law, then philosophy and taking republic as your bonus tech.

One more question, how is total defender combat bonus calculated?
Let's say I'm attacking a Fortified unit in a City that was built on Hill terrain, and has built Civil Defense already.
Bonus for each factor in Civilopedia:
Hills 50%
Fortified Units +25%
Civil Defense +50%
City +50%

 

[justanick]

One more question, how is total defender combat bonus calculated?
Let's say I'm attacking a Fortified unit in a City that was built on Hill terrain, and has built Civil Defense already.
Bonus for each factor in Civilopedia:
Hills 50%
Fortified Units +25%
Civil Defense +50%
City +50%

Add them up. So with those figures +175% on say defence 10 of infantry is a defence value of 27.5.

 

[Spoonwood]

As the saying goes, God fights on the side with the best artillery. First send in the workers to build the roads and/or settlers to shift borders. Then roll in the guns (or rocks). Fire! Then charge ahead with your fast units, or sluggers. Then foot soldiers can come to defend that city IF you need to defend that city that turn.

That said, you do NOT need to defend every city. Only border cities need defended, and often, only border cities with an AI you have warring relations with need defended.

 

[justanick]

There are instances where artillery is quite useful. Artillery helps to reduce losses by quite a margin, but it comes at the price of additional investment and unit support. Also it can increase the amount of turns till you eliminate your enemy. So while the merits of artillery are strong there are quite some circumstances where different priorities are the better choice overall. If you have to choose between 40 cavalry + 40 cannons or 60 cavalry and no cannnons, then the later tends to be better suited for a short war while the earlier is much better suited for a long war.

 

[Traex]

I'm trying Monarch difficulty again now n got Republic in less than 50 turns, but someone declared war at turn 40 but I managed to defend my territory. Now at turn 80+ it looks like someone else wanna declare war again. How to avoid being declared war in higher difficulty games?

 

[Spoonwood]

I'm trying Monarch difficulty again now n got Republic in less than 50 turns, but someone declared war at turn 40 but I managed to defend my territory. Now at turn 80+ it looks like someone else wanna declare war again. How to avoid being declared war in higher difficulty games?

Turning down the aggression level can help. Also, try to keep them at Polite or Gracious by signing Rights of Passage or gifting them gold every so often (I'll sometimes gift them 100 gold, and get it back later one way or another). Also, consider gifting them technology.

 

[Traex]

Turning down the aggression level can help. Also, try to keep them at Polite or Gracious by signing Rights of Passage or gifting them gold every so often (I'll sometimes gift them 100 gold, and get it back later one way or another). Also, consider gifting them technology.

I play Least Aggressive and the first war declared was when they were Polite to me. So Rights of Passage or gifting really can help? Not by training more defenses in cities? I had 2 Hoplites n 3 Warriors only with 3 towns when they attacked.

 

[justanick]

I play Least Aggressive and the first war declared was when they were Polite to me. So Rights of Passage or gifting really can help? Not by training more defenses in cities? I had 2 Hoplites n 3 Warriors only with 3 towns when they attacked.

Well, there will always be some risk left. In the very early game leaving no city undefended can lower the risk. RoP improves AI attitude and should therefore help.

AI attitude

I spent a few weeks with an unpatched version of PTW and no internet access (to dowload the patch), so I decided to spend some of that time testing AI attitudes. This test was with the 1.01 version of PTW, so there might be a possibility that some of this was changed in a patch, but most likely...

forums.civfanatics.com

Paying gtp to AI may make it want to keep that income stream and therefore unwilling to attack. But unless you are withholding some unseemingly crucial piece of information i would say that you simply had bad luck.

One thing is crucial: Embassies. Without them AI is more likely to attack. This can make the very early game a more delicate balance than later phases of the game.