How do you feel about being limited in number of cities and can we conquer the world?

[Voidwalkin]

Depending on how easily it is to build happiness, may not be harsh really.

I'm still going to conquer. If the burden is unbearable, this virtual conquest will simply feature much more virtual genocide. Too miserable being in my empire? Well, OK then...

Better to suffer no competition than to be peaceful in this game. Always been that way.

 

[Krikkit1]

Looks like the happiness penalty applies per settlement, and it is capped at -35 per settlement.

Not sure how I feel about the latter as it essentially means the penalty for being 7 over the cap is the same for being 8 over the cap, or 100 over the cap. It effectively punishes slightly overexpanding more than grossly overexpanding.

There may be additional unhappiness penalties, say -1 for every tile away from the Capital, or -2 for every settlement closer to the Capital that also punish overexpanding.

 

[greenOak]

There may be additional unhappiness penalties, say -1 for every tile away from the Capital, or -2 for every settlement closer to the Capital that also punish overexpanding.

I mean there's no evidence for this, and considering they spent a fair bit of time discussing the settlement cap and how it relates to happiness, it seems likely they would've mentioned this if it actually existed.

 

[Krikkit1]

I mean there's no evidence for this, and it seems likely they would've mentioned this if it actually existed.

Actually just saw some additional
unhappiness for buildings

 

[chaosprophet]

Looks like the happiness penalty applies per settlement, and it is capped at -35 per settlement.

Not sure how I feel about the latter as it essentially means the penalty for being 7 over the cap is the same for being 8 over the cap, or 100 over the cap. It effectively punishes slightly overexpanding more than grossly overexpanding.

-35 per settlement seems pretty big as doesn't look so far there are very big happiness bonuses, and while it wouldn't increase over that, it still extras -35 for each new one built. So you have 8 over the cap. Built a 9th one, that new one is extra -35 happiness from the get go when it is built, before it can do barely anything to increase your overall happiness gain.

One other thing in the game that happiness is important for is building tall cities. As we saw in the video, specialists gives a small happiness and food decrease. So going to over wide means you can go less tall. Additionally, it means you will get commemorations (was that the term?) less often, which are pretty powerful because they not only give you a temporary bonus, but also unlocks an extra policy slot.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Looks like the happiness penalty applies per settlement, and it is capped at -35 per settlement.

Not sure how I feel about the latter as it essentially means the penalty for being 7 over the cap is the same for being 8 over the cap, or 100 over the cap. It effectively punishes slightly overexpanding more than grossly overexpanding.

Keep in mind that -35 happiness in each city could be absolutely crippling. You would likely have most of your settlements with negative happiness. So it probably won't matter if you go 8+ over the cap because your civ will split before you get to 7 over the cap.

 

[_hero_]

-35 per settlement seems pretty big as doesn't look so far there are very big happiness bonuses, and while it wouldn't increase over that, it still extras -35 for each new one built. So you have 8 over the cap. Built a 9th one, that new one is extra -35 happiness from the get go when it is built, before it can do barely anything to increase your overall happiness gain.

One other thing in the game that happiness is important for is building tall cities. As we saw in the video, specialists gives a small happiness and food decrease. So going to over wide means you can go less tall. Additionally, it means you will get commemorations (was that the term?) less often, which are pretty powerful because they not only give you a temporary bonus, but also unlocks an extra policy slot.

I don't think we can say yet how common global happiness increases will be, but they made it pretty clear that they want to support both tall and wide gameplay. I'm assuming the right combination of social policies cards, wonders, leader traits and rush-buying local happiness buildings in towns will let you maintain an empire with the -35 penalty in place, but you'll be sacrificing a great deal of other potential modifiers to access all that stuff.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

I thought it was -5 happiness in each city when your over the cap. So if the cap is 6 and you have 7 you get -5 in each city which means a total of -35 in your empire, not in each city.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I thought it was -5 happiness in each city when your over the cap. So if the cap is 6 and you have 7 you get -5 in each city which means a total of -35 in your empire, not in each city.

It is -5 in each settlement for each settlement over the cap. So if you go 1 over the cap it is -5 in each settlement, if you go 2 over the cap, it is -10 in each settlement, if you go 3 over the cap, it is -15 in each settlement etc. So 7 over the cap would be -35 (7*5) in each city. But the game maxes out at -35. So 8 over the cap is still -35 in each settlement.

 

[Krikkit1]

I thought it was -5 happiness in each city when your over the cap. So if the cap is 6 and you have 7 you get -5 in each city which means a total of -35 in your empire, not in each city.

I think it’s a max of -35 in each city so 8 over the limit won’t be more unhappy in each city than 7 over the limit.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

This is one of several places where a system that seems geared towards a single map size and number of Civs and size of Civs needs to be modified (IF it isn't already and we just haven't seen it) to accommodate larger and smaller maps and Civs.

This and some other instances lead me to believe that parts of the new game are still being 'tweaked' before Launch OR that we are being shown bits of the game that do not reflect all the options to keep us guessing . . .

So your view on max number of cities that to be founded? should it be any? or mechanisms to get arond this. and city administration model especially with 'Towns' (smaller settlement) also came to exists.

will this ultimately creates 'Province' system in game where a city can own multiple towns around. though some limitations are needed. and some constrains ... whether can a town have walls around it?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

So your view on max number of cities that to be founded? should it be any? or mechanisms to get arond this. and city administration model especially with 'Towns' (smaller settlement) also came to exists.

will this ultimately creates 'Province' system in game where a city can own multiple towns around. though some limitations are needed. and some constrains ... whether can a town have walls around it?

Any place where they have indicated a hard and fast number for a Civ or Civs: numbers of settlements per Civ, number of total Civs allowed, etc. is probably only for a Standard Size map (whatever that turns out to be), and will/should turn out to be different for other sizes of maps.

Assuming, of course, that we get a similar size range: Dual to Huge, that we've gotten in previous Civ games. The fact that they said a console version was limited to certain size maps implies that, but I haven't seen anything definite yet.

 

[uppi]

It is -5 in each settlement for each settlement over the cap. So if you go 1 over the cap it is -5 in each settlement, if you go 2 over the cap, it is -10 in each settlement, if you go 3 over the cap, it is -15 in each settlement etc. So 7 over the cap would be -35 (7*5) in each city. But the game maxes out at -35. So 8 over the cap is still -35 in each settlement.

Yes, I checked the tooltip in the livestream and that is what it says. But the global happiness only goes down by 19 when Carl founds the 6th settlement, instead of 30. So maybe negative happiness in a settlement does not decrease global happiness (just does not increase it)?

 

[greenOak]

Yes, I checked the tooltip in the livestream and that is what it says. But the global happiness only goes down by 19 when Carl founds the 6th settlement, instead of 30. So maybe negative happiness in a settlement does not decrease global happiness (just does not increase it)?

The settlement itself is producing some happiness (it was settled on fresh water so it should get that bonus) so we should expect global happiness to go down by less than 30. I'm not sure what the fresh water bonus is, but the capital was settled on fresh water and it was only generating +5 happiness I think?. It seems unlikely that settlement was producing 11 happiness. Maybe a happiness building got completed on that turn as well.

 

[Krikkit1]

Yes, I checked the tooltip in the livestream and that is what it says. But the global happiness only goes down by 19 when Carl founds the 6th settlement, instead of 30. So maybe negative happiness in a settlement does not decrease global happiness (just does not increase it)?

That seems possible… it would mean global happiness can never be negative.